PowerPC version of Book II?

Macintosh support forum for Eschalon: Book I

Are you going to be using a PowerPC Mac in 2009?

Yes
16
35%
Probably
6
13%
Unlikely
7
15%
No
17
37%
 
Total votes: 46

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Jude
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Post by Jude » January 25th, 2008, 1:09 pm

macdude22 wrote:I voted unlikely not because I don't have a TON of powerPC macs but because I mainly use the Intel ones now (imac and a MBP).

I'll die before someone wrestles my 6100 away from me. Even then I might come back to haunt them, I loved that machine.
I love mine, too. Isn't it strange how it commands such affection? I think it's all the good memories of time well-spent, and the contrast at the time with having to use DOS or Windows.

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Post by Leej » January 25th, 2008, 10:33 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:
Leej wrote:Programming for the lowest common Windows denominator but only for the most recent Mac users on an 'old school' game would (imho) leave a bad taste in some mouths. Just my 2¢.
I agree, but Windows is just Windows. All the different versions of Windows compile on my single Windows workstation. Mac is different- the PowerPC requires a significant number of code changes, and the code only compiles on a PPC machine. I can't use my Intel-Mac to compile the PowerPC version of our games. Essentially, the PowePC version of the game is the "odd man out" because it requires a dedicated machine and unique code changes, while the Windows, Linux and Intel-Mac versions can all be [theoretically] compiled on the same machine (a 3-way booting Mac) using nearly identical code.

I really love the Mac and I love working with it (I'm typing this now on a Mac Book Pro) but I (and many other developers) are going to be very happy when we don't have to make two distinct versions of every Mac program.
Sounded like a butt in my post and didn't really mean too. No offense intended. The Intel Macs have been a curse and a blessing ;)

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Post by BasiliskWrangler » January 26th, 2008, 9:24 am

Leej wrote:Sounded like a butt in my post and didn't really mean too. No offense intended. The Intel Macs have been a curse and a blessing ;)
A butt? Not at all! You're just defending the platform you enjoy. I wish there was an easier way to continue to offer support to older Macs.

Incidentally, what was the fastest PowerPC Mac produced? I wonder if the slightly increased system requirements of Book II would exclude a sizable percentage of older Macs by default.

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Post by Leej » January 26th, 2008, 10:18 am

G5s started off at 1.6 and ended at 2.7 GHz.
G4's topped out at ≈ 1.7 GHz, tho with after market upgrades G4s run up to 2.0 GHzish

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Jude
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Post by Jude » January 26th, 2008, 11:37 am

I think the reason that my G4 1.25 GHz plays the game all right (except for the weird slow downs that everyone is having in towns) is that it is a dual processor and also has a 128 MB AGP graphics card. A lot of the later, "faster" Macs only had a single processor and it really affected their ability to run some apps as well as my Mac. (I thought the G4s topped out at 1.42 GHz, but I may be wrong).

Please don't make the system specs any higher. If anything, it would be nice if you could optimize the next game so that we didn't get the slow downs in town. (I was wondering if the stand-alone light posts or the textures of the tiles had something to do with the slowdowns, or if it is the math of dealing with the NPCs? And why is there a slowdown right before the bridge in the Grimhold Maintenance underground area?)

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BasiliskWrangler
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Post by BasiliskWrangler » January 26th, 2008, 9:33 pm

Jude wrote:Please don't make the system specs any higher. If anything, it would be nice if you could optimize the next game so that we didn't get the slow downs in town.
Book II will be significantly more optimized than Book I in terms of how it renders each frame, however we will probably offset that extra speed by adding more features to the engine.

I don't expect Book II to have much (if any) higher requirements that Book I, but it is definitely not going to have lesser requirements.

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Post by Krafen » January 27th, 2008, 4:03 am

Jude wrote:I think the reason that my G4 1.25 GHz plays the game all right (except for the weird slow downs that everyone is having in towns) is that it is a dual processor and also has a 128 MB AGP graphics card. A lot of the later, "faster" Macs only had a single processor and it really affected their ability to run some apps as well as my Mac. (I thought the G4s topped out at 1.42 GHz, but I may be wrong).
I'm not sure if by "everyone" you mean all PowerMac users or all Mac users in general, but, I haven't noticed any slowdowns. I did purchase my laptop fairly recently, though.

I am using a MacBook Pro with the following specs:
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
GeForce 8600M GT w/ 256 MB

Maybe for Book 2, more graphic fine-tuning options could be provided? For example, many games have several levels of shadow detail available since rendering shadows seems to take a heavy toll on many video cards.

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Post by aamage » January 27th, 2008, 6:56 am

I am using a PPC G4 with the following specs:
867 mhz
640 mb sdram
system 10.4.6

I love the game and would like to do book II and III.

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Re: PowerPC version of Book II?

Post by sarvadi » January 27th, 2008, 2:25 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:I wonder how necessary it will be to have a PowerPC version of Book II a year from now? I just had my second PowerPC Mac die and I really am wondering if it is worth it to find a replacement (or pay to have this rebuilt).

Mac fans- tell me what your plans are...
I'm surprised by the number of yes's for PPC! Unfortunately, everything is now written for the universal Intel machines. Time waits for no one! LOL

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Post by JyriErik » January 27th, 2008, 10:03 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:[Incidentally, what was the fastest PowerPC Mac produced? I wonder if the slightly increased system requirements of Book II would exclude a sizable percentage of older Macs by default.


The fastest APPLE produced G4 was the dual 1.42GHz MDD (although not too many of them were produced), so dual 1.25GHz would by the top for Apple. For replacement CPUs, the top end is either dual 1.8GHz or single 2GHz G4s.

G5s went from single 1.6GHz to dual 2.7GHz and quad 2.5GHz.

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Jude
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Post by Jude » January 28th, 2008, 2:52 am

BasiliskWrangler wrote:
Jude wrote:Please don't make the system specs any higher. If anything, it would be nice if you could optimize the next game so that we didn't get the slow downs in town.
Book II will be significantly more optimized than Book I in terms of how it renders each frame, however we will probably offset that extra speed by adding more features to the engine.

I don't expect Book II to have much (if any) higher requirements that Book I, but it is definitely not going to have lesser requirements.
Will it still work under OS X 10.3.9?

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Post by macdude22 » January 28th, 2008, 3:57 pm

Jude wrote:
macdude22 wrote:I voted unlikely not because I don't have a TON of powerPC macs but because I mainly use the Intel ones now (imac and a MBP).

I'll die before someone wrestles my 6100 away from me. Even then I might come back to haunt them, I loved that machine.
I love mine, too. Isn't it strange how it commands such affection? I think it's all the good memories of time well-spent, and the contrast at the time with having to use DOS or Windows.

Jude
I had a 233mhz G3 upgrade and a half height scsi drive in the beast (well still in it) so the case was like jacked up on the drive side. I used this machine for many many many years and some of my fondest memories are with this machine, X-Wing, Sim City and Sim City 2000, Ircle, Gerry's ICQ, AL Unser Jr. Racing, Spectre VR, Exile, my first forays into emulation, so much Jolt and Late nights.

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Post by Jude » January 28th, 2008, 7:32 pm

Oh yeah, Sim City and X-Wing! Plus Blades of Exile, Sim Earth, Wing Commander, Tie-Fighter, Master of Orion II, Heroes of Might and Magic II, Escape Velocity, Gabriel Knight, Diablo.... plus Clarisworks, Painter, etc. :D

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Post by macdude22 » January 29th, 2008, 11:48 am

Jude wrote:Oh yeah, Sim City and X-Wing! Plus Blades of Exile, Sim Earth, Wing Commander, Tie-Fighter, Master of Orion II, Heroes of Might and Magic II, Escape Velocity, Gabriel Knight, Diablo.... plus Clarisworks, Painter, etc. :D

Jude
EV:Nova single handedly made me fail World Civ I my freshman year of college (I aced the class next time around). Yea I was getting addicted to games before WoW made it cool......posers.

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Post by GryphonMD » January 29th, 2008, 4:54 pm

macdude22 wrote:EV:Nova single handedly made me fail World Civ I my freshman year of college (I aced the class next time around). Yea I was getting addicted to games before WoW made it cool......posers.
Pffft... until you almost fail college classes from playing games on your state-of-the-art Apple IIe, you have no room to call anyone a poser :) .

[GryphonMD]
<yes, I'm showing my age... I've owned Apples since before Apple was cool :)>

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