List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Macintosh support forum for Eschalon: Book I
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waryk
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List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by waryk » April 8th, 2009, 7:07 pm

I must admit that it took me a while to calm down so I could write this post. I was upset because as I played Eschalon I felt so close to losing myself in the world and storyline, only to be pulled out time and time again by the frustrating controls and glitches. I really felt I was beta-testing a product rather than playing a finished game.

Before I continue let me say: Thomas, you do a great job emulating the feel of old school RPGs, but emulating their control schemes should be the last thing in your to-do list. I'm just going to start with launching the game and go through the list of issues I've encountered so far. These are all for the Mac version of Eschalon, running OSX 10.4.11. If my commentary sounds brash it's because I'm trying to be concise, I offer this feedback with the best intentions.



1. The Launch Menu lacks a "Show at startup" checkbox. There is zero reason to force players to click START each time they want to launch the game. Add a "Show Launch Menu At Start: Yes/No" option in the Settings.

2. The HELP button in the Launch Menu refers me to another file in the installation directory instead of opening it or showing me the actual HELP.

3. "Restore a Saved Adventure" is conventionally called "Load" and should be retitled accordingly.

4. The game's Main Menu needs a "Settings" button

5. It's impossible to delete saved games from the LOAD box accessed via the Main Menu

6. There is zero excuse for only giving players 9 save slots in 2009.

7. It's impossible to skip the animation that plays when you click "Begin New Adventure".

8. As pointed out elsewhere, the F12 key fails to bring up Help in the Character Creation Screen (CCS).

9. When a player selects a skill from the "Available Skill" column, the name of that skill should disappear from that column. It should re-appear in the "Available Skills" column only when the player "takes back his skill points".

10. Ctrl+Left click fails to remove a skill (or decrease its level) in the "Known Skills" column

11. Pressing either Enter key must activate the default selected button in a dialogue windows (most usually the OK button)

12. If a player selects a class, spends all their skill points and then quickly cycles through the various Classes, they end up with negative skill points. Removing all skills except the "Class Granted Skill" still leaves you with less then 20 points. Negative skill points must be removed from the CCS

13. If a player tries to continue without selecting their class, the warning box tells you to select a "Classification" instead of "Class".

14. The short introductory movie that is shown after the player is done with the CCS must be skippable

15. As mentioned elsewhere, it's impossible to quit the game via +Q (or selecting Quit from the Menu Bar, or from right-clicking the game's icon on the dock). This:
BasiliskWrangler wrote: (this is a because of the cross-platform language we use- to maintain compatibility they don't handle very many platform-independent system calls.)
is not an excuse. Furthermore, the game should at least support +H or +M to Hide or Minimize the Windows or Full Screen version accordingly.

16. The Enter key on the numpad must activate the quick weapon switch.

17. None of the keyboard shortcuts work if CAPS LOCK is on. The game only recognizes small letters and fails to recognize the same capital letters.

18. The game lacks a Quick Load button.

19. Clicking on an area only moves a character one square towards that point. The character must walk as far as it can to the location a player clicked.

20. The game must have a shortcut for the green "GET ALL" button that appears when a player is looting.

21. Containers should have more than 8 item slots available.

22. Pressing TAB should keep the "Tactical Overlay" on until the player presses TAB again to turn it off.

23. Keyboard movement controls would be nice. (Can utilize the numpad keys for 8 directional movement).

24. If the game is running in full screen mode, it crashes when the player presses Option+Command+Escape.

25. Customizable controls for the game would be awesome.

-=Random Bugs and Glitches, Unable to Reproduce=-
1. Sometimes the animations would get "stuck" on the "Tactical Overlay". I would go to another area and still see the graphical "ghosts" of NPCs appear when I pressed TAB.
2. Sometimes it becomes impossible to remove skill points from a Class Granted Skill. I believe it's when you raise the CGS to level 6 and then quickly switch among other classes.
3. Sometimes the Options Menu fails to show up. The yellow border around the disk icon would appear, but the window itself fails to generate.



I realize that it's too late to fix any of these issues with Book 1 and that's a shame, because to me (and I imagine other new players), Book 1 speaks of the polish of further product. So far, at least on the Mac, that level of polish leaves me wanting more. I hope there is still time to address the issues I listed above.

Thomas, you said you are employing two testers for Book 2. I hope you will consider a stripped-down beta or a closed beta in order to get a bigger amount of feedback, because I feel that three people are too few to test a game project this ambitious.

I'd like to close on a positive note by saying that the sound effects and music in Eschelon are fantastic: better than many RPGs done by large development houses. As I've said above, the story, characters and world are well crafted and pull you in like nothing else. I dig the combat system that can be as tactical or as hacky-slashy as I want it to be. I also like the step away from RPG pitfalls by allowing the player instant teleports to certain locations and avoiding random encounters (outside of camping).

Overall you have a fantastic property on your hands, Thomas. I will try Book 1 on Windows to see if it's any better, but if the experience is identical then I'll avoid buying the game and just try to finish the demo instead. Still looking forward to Book 2! :D

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by Dragonlady » April 8th, 2009, 9:05 pm


10. Ctrl+Left click fails to remove a skill (or decrease its level) in the "Known Skills" column
I'm a Mac user, I use right click on the skill I want to delete a number from. It only works IF you've put in a number this time around. You can't delete a number if it was done on a previous level up.

Also, there will be more beta testing of Book 2 with more people. The ones mentioned are for the Alpha testing. Remember, BW is doing this all on his own and he can't find everything and change everything the moment it has been spotted. Plenty of changes have been made to Book 1. What version are you using? And where did you pay for the game? Recently there have been a few complaints by other sites selling the game and they've made changes.

I can get from the start up 'movie' when starting a new character by clicking anywhere on the screen and that gets me to the Abandoned village start.

Perhaps BW or one the more technical savvey folks will reply to the rest of your statements. Please be patient. thanks. :wink:
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waryk
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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by waryk » April 8th, 2009, 9:27 pm

A few additional issues to report:



26. The red X (close window) button in the upper-left corner doesn't work when the game is in Windowed mode

27. Selecting several skills in the CCS and then clicking the dice to re-roll stats removes all selections from the "Known Skills" column



Dragonlady - I'm referring to an issue with removing skills or skill levels by Ctrl+Left Clicking in the CCS. I'm also playing the demo and have yet to purchase any products. Clicking during the "rain and weird face flashing" movie fails to interrupt it on my machine.

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by IJBall » April 8th, 2009, 10:28 pm

waryk wrote:6. There is zero excuse for only giving players 9 save slots in 2009.
BW says that there will be 20 save slots in Book II.
waryk wrote:8. As pointed out elsewhere, the F12 key fails to bring up Help in the Character Creation Screen (CCS).
On Mac laptops, none of the F1-F12 function keys work like they're supposed to - I believe BW is aware of this issue. Some of the other issues you mention in your list relate to this. I'm not sure what the plans are in regards to this bug and Book II.
waryk wrote:10. Ctrl+Left click fails to remove a skill (or decrease its level) in the "Known Skills" column
Are you using v1.04 or v1.05? Because the left-click/control-click issue with removing skills was apparently fixed in v1.05 (control-clicking to subtract/remove skills now works for me in v1.05).
waryk wrote:23. Keyboard movement controls would be nice. (Can utilize the numpad keys for 8 directional movement).
Coming in Book II.
waryk wrote:-=Random Bugs and Glitches, Unable to Reproduce=-
3. Sometimes the Options Menu fails to show up. The yellow border around the disk icon would appear, but the window itself fails to generate.
I absolutely, positively can report that I too have had this bug happen to me. On several occasions, I think I've had to 'Force Quit' the Book I application, and start over from my last save point.

This is a particularly irritating and destructive bug that I would like to see eliminated.

And, like waryk, I've found it to be random - I don't know how to reproduce this bug.
I just know that it's happened to me at random times. (I think it usually happens relatively early on in the various games I've played...)

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by waryk » April 9th, 2009, 3:00 am

Some additional concerns:



28. A player can hit Escape to leave the merchant window, but this option doesn't exist for exiting a dialogue tree. Keyboard shortcuts are needed to ease the flow of conversation.

29. Double-clicking an existing entry in the SAVE box should save in that entry instead of giving the player an option to change the name of the entry.

30. When either force attacking or in combat a player must be able to hold down the left mouse button to continuously attack the selected target. Clicking 20+ times to break a barrel with an axe early in the game is NOT FUN.

31. The skill scrollbar in the character window must give the player an option of clicking on the empty space in the scrollbar to quickly navigate up or down the skill list instead of being forced to only use the up/down arrow icons.

32. The game must recognize the Enter key on the Numpad the same way as it does the regular Enter key.

waryk
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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by waryk » April 9th, 2009, 5:03 pm

A few additional issues:

33. The number of keys a player has grows quickly. A Keyring item purchased from an NPC could help resolve the issue by having all keys picked up be automatically added to the Keyring. The player could right-click the Keyring item to see a list of keys in possession.

34. Stackable items should stack automatically. E.x: Picking up an Ash while already having an Ash in your inventory should stack them automatically.

Jedi_Learner - Do you have a reason why a player should be unable to skip those two animations or, in fact, any game cinematic?

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by CrazyBernie » April 10th, 2009, 12:39 am

I must admit it took me a little while to calm down before making this retaliatory post. I hope I don't come across as too much of a jerk, as I mean to provide you with this information "with the best of intentions."
waryk wrote:Some additional concerns:
I would first suggest reading the Book II Features List before making any further demands - er, recommendations. :roll:
Jedi_Learner - Do you have a reason why a player should be unable to skip those two animations or, in fact, any game cinematic?
I believe Jedi Learner was merely trying to imply (albeit in the most sarcastic way possible ^_^) that the length of time you spend tied up with the start menu animation/intro "video" is a bit trivial to be complaining about. It's not like you're sitting through a 20 minute video. That being said, I clicked through the post-CCS intro with no problem, I can't help you on that issue.
If my commentary sounds brash it's because I'm trying to be concise, I offer this feedback with the best intentions.
Honestly, I found many of your complaints to be less "brash" and more just plain rude. It's one thing to make recommendations such as: "Hey, I thought this feature sucked, you should try doing it this way." Instead you've gone with "it must be this way," "it should be that way," and "that is inexcusable..." It makes you sound more than a bit pompous, and trying to cover for it by prefacing with "the best intentions" just makes it worse IMO.

As Dragonlady mentioned, BW is basically a one man developer... so it'd be cool if you could cut the guy a little slack. For a first game from a new developer, he did a pretty damn good job.

But let me end on a positive note...
3. "Restore a Saved Adventure" is conventionally called "Load" and should be retitled accordingly.
Are you abso-frakkin-lutely serious? If I had a list of "most ridiculous feature complaints," this would be in the Hall of Fame for said list. :!:

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by BasiliskWrangler » April 10th, 2009, 6:29 am

waryk wrote:"Restore a Saved Adventure" is conventionally called "Load" and should be retitled accordingly.
CrazyBernie wrote:Are you abso-frakkin-lutely serious? If I had a list of "most ridiculous feature complaints," this would be in the Hall of Fame for said list. :!:
The ironic thing is that the way we've drawn Book II's menu, we didn't have enough room to print "Restore a Saved Adventure", so now it is just "Load Adventure". Go figure. :wink:

waryk, you do have some valid requests for OS specific controls and we'll see what we can do for Book II. Unfortunately, if you were hoping to see these additions to Book I, we don't have any plans to update that game until after Book II is out. As of version 1.05, Book I is very stable and has only a few non-critical bugs that can wait to be patch.
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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by RPGamer » August 14th, 2012, 6:33 pm

I have a problem with my version of book 1, and I'm not sure if it has been talked about, but if I go into the second story of the inn where you first start off, and then I camp for a while, once I leave the place, most of the tiles become plain white, and the menu shows up only as a yellow outline, and I can't get out of it. do you know how I can fix this? also, sometimes it happens even when I don't camp

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » August 14th, 2012, 7:14 pm

Have you updated to the latest version of Book I? That sounds like a graphical issue that slipped into the Mac version for a few iterations on newer systems.
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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by RPGamer » August 14th, 2012, 8:36 pm

I bought it on the app store about... six months ago i think, maybe longer. I also have the latest mac, I think.

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » August 15th, 2012, 11:04 am

Hmmm. I wonder if Apple's making more changes that are bringing the issue back. Do you know what graphics you have in your machine? Is it using on board Intel graphics or an nVidia card or something else?
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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by RPGamer » August 15th, 2012, 2:28 pm

I honestly don't know

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Re: List of issues encountered in Mac version.

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » August 15th, 2012, 2:36 pm

If you click on the More Info button on the About This Mac screen, it should tell you what graphics you're using and so on.
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