store random seed to remove temptation to re-roll treasure

[jinnes]

As I'm sure we ALL know, in E:B1 the loot inside containers (and vendor inventories) is randomly rolled upon opening the container. Given the vast variability in the rewards any given chest can yield (weapon fragments, anyone?), the temptation to re-roll loot (i.e. open container, reload quicksave, open container, reload quicksave, etc) is simply too strong for me to resist.

And honestly, I can think of no justification for a game designer to ask me to resist that temptation. The temptation simply should not be there. The problem is easy to solve: store a persistent random seed within the character save file. This way, the contents of any given chest are still random (and you don't open the whole pre-determined-loot can of worms), but you would get the same thing from that chest if you were to re-load and open the chest again.

I don't know of any programming language that doesn't let you specify the random seed in the call to the random number generator. Maybe BlitzMax doesn't allow this, but I'd be very surprised.

To me, this is a totally obvious technological fix to a (IMO) very annoying flaw in the game.

Of course, on a related note, I'd request that you reduce the variability of the results from chests somewhat. But that's a different thread.

[arkhamresident]

Is it an annoying game flaw or an annoying character flaw?

[BasiliskWrangler]

For Book II I will make treasure pre-load into all containers upon map entry. Yes, that means that you could go to a saved game before you enter a map and have the whole map regenerate loot, but that also resets all the enemies, traps, and locks so that makes it far less tempting I would think.

[Grue]

Just pretty please with sugar on top, make the variability in the range of loot from one chest a bit smaller, so that it does not range from a simple apple to an enchanted Flaming Sword of Doom(TM), depending on your luck.

For Book II I will make treasure pre-load into all containers upon map entry.

I take it, this "map entry" means that Book II will be segmented into separate smaller maps (like Book I) and not be one continuous big map (like was talked about some time ago, IIRC)?

[BasiliskWrangler]

For Book II I will make treasure pre-load into all containers upon map entry.

I take it, this "map entry" means that Book II will be segmented into separate smaller maps (like Book I) and not be one continuous big map (like was talked about some time ago, IIRC)?

Right now at this very early stage, that is correct. To make a seamless world would essentially require a new map engine and editor. I know it doesn't seem like it would be a big task, but going from world that loads in sections to a giant seamless world is a major is a major fundamental change to the game engine. Although it would be cool, I don't think the game would be drastically improved because of it.

I am trying to sort development priorities right now- each new feature gets a "rating of importance" and an estimated "time to complete". Features with low importance and long development times are of course on the bottom of the list. At the top of the list: increased screen resolution, GUI improvements, engine optimization, rule system fixes/updates, and new graphic tiles for the new locations featured in Book II.

[acoustibop]

You can actually make your own world map: if you go into your saves (make sure you pick one that's got well completed maps), the .opg files are the maps of each area (in the state of completion you're currently at) that you can open in a graphics package; they're in the .png format. The pictures are 202 x 200 pixels and fit into a 5 x 5 grid - so make a new image file that's 1010 x 1000 pixels, figure out where each world map picture goes, and copy and paste them in.

I have one I made earlier; some of the earlier areas aren't quite complete because I haven't gone through them thoroughly enough since improving my Cartographic skill, but it's mostly fairly complete. Baron's Thicket was a pain. If BW's cool with it, I could post it here? I don't want to infringe on copyrights etc.

[Unbeliever]

But I *LIKE* the reload-and-try-again random treasure feature!

My only complaint is that you didn't put a Quickload key next to the Quicksave key, to make it even easier...

I think of it as being the same as rolling your character stats at the start of the game -- if the player is WILLING to be patient and reroll over and over, hoping for better results, let him. At SOME point, he'll get bored and settle for what he gets...

[Randomizer]

I'm in favor of generate all the loot at the start of a map section. This evens it out in that you have to decide if the overall value and types of items is worth replaying a whole section. When it's a solid block of a few hours as opposed to several smaller blocks that add up to more time, most people won't go through the grind of all those fights even if its less time consuming.

My first time playing the demo, I didn't know that some containers were random and got fairly low treasure. All those skulls and femurs in the coffins instead of better items.

[jinnes]

My only concern with generating all the treasure at map load is that it might conflict with the system that scales the treasure based on character level. Imagine this scenario: I, a brave and curious lowbie, poke my nose through the door of a Deep Dark Dungeon. I realize I am too low level to explore it and run away. Ten character levels later, I come back and clear the dungeon, but every chest contains level 1 healing potions and weapon fragments -- because the loot system generated the loot when I was level 1.

So, BW, if you do implement that system, I'd say be careful how it interacts with loot-scaling! Assuming you are keeping loot scaling, that is, which IMO you should get rid of!

[Jude]

My only concern with generating all the treasure at map load is that it might conflict with the system that scales the treasure based on character level....

Good point! As far as I can tell so far, there are certain types of items that don't show up if you are at a low level. And I do tend to enter areas, then turn back around and go elsewhere.

Jude

[Rollor]

My only concern with generating all the treasure at map load is that it might conflict with the system that scales the treasure based on character level. Imagine this scenario: I, a brave and curious lowbie, poke my nose through the door of a Deep Dark Dungeon. I realize I am too low level to explore it and run away. Ten character levels later, I come back and clear the dungeon, but every chest contains level 1 healing potions and weapon fragments -- because the loot system generated the loot when I was level 1.

well you probably wont level 10 levels up on one map? The way I understood it was that every time you enter the map the treasures are rolled ?

[jinnes]

Rollor, hmm, I guess BW's post was ambiguous. I assumed he meant it would be generated the *first time* you enter a map and then saved with the map file.

[Rune_74]

As long as we have horses maps can remain:)

[Sengir]

Maybe it is possible to re-roll treasure in unopened chests after levelup? Shouldn't be too hard because the chests already have a visited-flag. One might still go saveloading with that solution, but it is a lot more bothersome than it is now (you would have to levelup each time, so it is more work than just click, reload, click, etc.). It would also limit the times you could do it to 20 give or take.

[silverkitty]

Code: Select all

Method enterMap(mapX, mapY)
    ...
    initializeChests = 0
    if player.visitedMap(mapX, mapY) = 1
        if player.level <> map.levelChestsInitialized
            initializeChests = 1
        end if
    else
        initializeChests = 1
    end if

    if initalizeChests = 1
        `do the thing
        map.levelChestsInitialized = player.level
    end if
    ...