Maximum number of challenges meet in one game [SPOILER]

[dragonslayer]

There are 13 challenges total, how many of them you can meet?

I met 9 of them in one game during first run(with book I experience). I thought this should be the maximum, but after finishing the game, I think it is possible to meet more, 11 should be maximum:

All challenges except The Pacifist and The True Mage, this will be very hard though, you must be a ranger fighting all the way without any armor, any amulet or ring, no spell, no alchemy.

The main difficulty is you can't heal yourself with spells, can't buy or make potions, so you can only gain health by regeneration during battle, which will take lots of time.

Also no teleport and no travel will make travel annoying, so this is just possible and i don't want to make such a pain run again.

BTW:
The mage/healer is much more poweful in book2 now with improved spells and mana regen. with maximum 5 mana/round regen, and the unbalanced invisible spell, he can be The Almighty Jack of All Trades and it is quite easy after early game even with so much challenge restrictions.

And one bug found: magick user mana gain per level is based on wisdom/10 + perception/5, which should be intelligence/10 + perception/5, the healer also have the same bug.

Attachments are some screenshots of my startup and final stats.

[dragonslayer]

Initial stats was:
str: 13
dex: 13
endurance: 11
speed: 13
int: 13
wis: 14
per: 14
con: 14

Took quite a while to roll the number, i picked male +1 str, origin +2 per and +1 wis. raised int to 15 an all else into perception.

Final stats str is 20 buffed with L6 ogre strength. hp and mp is shown in next screenshots. you can gain more hp/mp if you save points during level up and put all of them into per/endurance etc.

The inventory weapons above the crux of fire are all unique weapons found (worth 3500/5000 each).

All skills can be trained to level 8 are trained, and most books are found, that is how the Jack of all trades challenge done, you don't need waste many points actually with the trainers and skill books available.

Only 30 quests are finished because i want the rogue skills trainer, you can kill him and finish the quest still but you have to waste another 12 skill points for the jack of all trades challenge.

Final level is only 21 because you can't finish bronze poem quest or the untouchable challenge will fail, thus no 30000 exp from the bells.

Another bug i remember:
If you put crux of fire into some chest before entering the final crux chamber, you can still summon korren, end game as normal. not a big problem, but checking of crux of fire in inventory when enter the chamber should be nice.

[KillingMoon]

Speaking as just a newbie I'm noticing you somehow managed to distribute 129 points under the dice at setup, while not much has gone to 'skills'; level 1 Elemental is all you've got there.
Is this the result of some sort of trick to circumnavigate a game mechanic?

Pacifist seems a really hard challenge to me. I would think that also the restriction of not being allowed more than 20 kills would mean you can't gain experience points well... ouch!
By the way, do you happen to know whether a Pacifist is still allowed to kill animals or do a bit gardening - read: kill weed and beanstalk, or whatever that mean growth was called.

Yeah, magick seems very powerful in this game. I haven't had too much time with the game myself (and on my first effort I installed a patch halfway through, which erased my saves, aargh! ) but if I have one complaint to make against this game then it is that there are too few restrictions for those spells. Or are there some creatures in the game that are immune to some spells? I haven't come across them - those spells always seemed effective.

Hats off for this effort!

[Slarty]

I take it there are a few places where it is 100% necessary to make a kill? Otherwise you could do True Mage as well if you switched Hellbringer for Pacifist.

[dragonslayer]

Ok, that is because of i want to max out your skills, hp, mp.
Rules for hp/mp calculation:

Character creation:
base hp = str　+ endurance * 2
base mp = int + perception * 2

Level up:
max hp increased = ([str / 10] + [endurance / 5]) * level up
max mp increased = ([int or wisdom / 10] + [perception / 5]) * level up
([] means value are rounded)

You will have much more base mp or hp if you put all your points into perception or endurance during character creation. as well as more of them during each level up.

Also, if you save points during level up (don't raise skill, stats), you can also gain more. e.g:
Level 1 - level 5, you got 12 attribute points if you don't press the level up icon.
put all those 12 points to perception at level 5 with initial perception 34, 15 int/wisdom as shown above, you should have 46 points perception and gain:
( [46/5] + [15/10] ) * 4 = (9 + 1) * 4 = 40 max mp.
If you do level up in each level, mp you can gain are:
level 1 - level 2: [37/5] + [15/10] = 7 + 1 = 8
level 2 - level 3: [40/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 9
level 3 - level 4: [43/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 9
level 4 - level 5: [46/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 10
so total is 8+9+9+10 = 36 points max mp, 4 points less than the save up method above, the more level you save, the more you will gain.

About the skill part, most skills have book/trainers, and trainer can only train skill to level 8, like element magic skill, if you raise it during character creation to level 5, you can only train 3 levels at trainer and wasted 4 skill points. other skills are similar, there is a skill trainers/books list on the forum, you can have a look at:
http://www.basiliskgames.com/forums/vie ... =12&t=3171

Pacifist is hard, but possible, most battles can be skipped if you want, also the Pacifist means no hellbringer and few exp, so if you want to meet more challenges, take hellbringer instead.

Pacifist can still gain some exp from quests besides the few kills he can have, also disarming trap, picking locks can give you some exp, i don't think there is anything else for you to level up.

Certain creatures do have some spell resistence, but lots of high level spells like ice lance, mystic hammer, sunder flesh, fireball do physical damage instead of magic or elemental damage, so you can avoid the resistence if they have. making the spells even more powful, but those damage dealing spells are ok as they also cost lots of mana, fighter or ranger can also do damage close to or even more than spell damages with proper setup. those unbalanced spells are buffer/helper spells i think, especially invisible -- which makes you almost invincible with just one spell as long as you have enough mana or regen.

[dragonslayer]

I take it there are a few places where it is 100% necessary to make a kill? Otherwise you could do True Mage as well if you switched Hellbringer for Pacifist.

Can't remember correctly, but it is less than 10 i think, i always like to slaught every enemy on sight and loot every chest i can see.

The problem you can't take Pacifist with True Mage the same time is:
Even if you don't need to kill anything to pass through, there are still 2 level 10 locks in Talushorn level 3 and level 4, to obtain the key you have to kill enemy or pick lock it, which seems can't be pick locked, as they are special even level 6 lock melt don't work on them.

So the only way to open it is to smash it or get the key, either of which require you to do some damage -- with magic or weapon, any of them will fail one challenge at least.

[dragonslayer]

Ok, made some testing and it seems even level 10 locks can't be opened via level 6 lock melt, it can still be opened with pick lock skill, but you will need higher level skills and enough picks.

Also discovered the lock picking rule:

Chance to pick% = pick locks skill level * 3 + dex/3 + 50 - Lock Rating * 10

e.g:
pick a level 10 lock with 20 level in pick locks and 13 dex:
Chance to pick% = 20 * 3 + 13/3 + 50 - 10 * 10 = 14%

a level 7 lock with same skill and dex should give you 44% chance.

So the level 10 lock is not a problem, but i do remember something which require you to do some damage is:
2 computers need to be destoried in Talushorn level 4 to open some door which can't be opened in any other way.
you need use powder kegs to get a way in Talushorn level 3.

Any of which will make Pacifist to meet 12 challenges impossible.

[Randomizer]

I picked the last level 10 lock with lower Pick Locks (15) and higher dexterity so it's possible, but hard to do without planning ahead. At Pick Locks 12 I only had a 6% chance and gave up.

Using turn undead spell at level 6 you can avoid killing undead because they will flee damaged.

The hard part is Hammerlorne Mines, Level 3 getting past the devilmanders. I didn't have the spells or potions to try charm or stun on them.

Invisibility is way overpowered to get around killing things.

[okashii]

Hey dragonslayer =] congrats on the epic achievement.
A small question: does 60 Perception = 5mana per round? [regeneration]

[dragonslayer]

No, you need 70 perception without meditation to reach 5 mana/round regen. i have 10 meditation skill for the jack of all trades challenge so i only need 60 perception.

Health and mana regen rule from my experience:
Health regen is based on medicine and endurance, 1 point medicine have same effect as 1 point endurance for health regen.

Health regen rate = 1 health / 50 - (medicine + endurance) rounds
capped at 1 health/ round, which you need 49 endurance without medicine.
This is like health regen rule in book1 (capped at 1/3 rounds instead). mana regen was like that but changed in book2 to improve the caster class.

Mana regen is based on perception and meditation, 1 point meditation have same effect as 1 point perception for mana regen.

When your meditation + perception <= 42
Mana regen rate ~= 1 mana / 35 - (meditation + perception) * 5/6 rounds
which means 6 points in meditation and perception reduce 5 rounds to regen 1 mana. at 42 points, you will reach 1 mana/round regen, after that, you need 10 more to reach 2 mana/round at 52 points. then 6 more for 3 mana/round at 58 points, 64 points for 4 mana/round, 70 for 5 mana/round.

A quick lookup table for mana regen is:

perception+meditation : mana regen/rounds
7 : 1/29
8 : 1/28
9 : 1/27
10 : 1/26
11 : 1/26
12 : 1/25
13 : 1/24
14 : 1/23
15 : 1/22
16 : 1/22
17 : 1/21
...
39 : 1/3
40 : 1/2
41 : 1/2
42 : 1/1
43 : 1/1
...
51 : 1/1
52 : 2/1
...
57 : 2/1
58 : 3/1
...
63 : 3/1
64 : 4/1
...
69 : 4/1
70 : 5/1

[Farwalker]

Also, if you save points during level up (don't raise skill, stats), you can also gain more. e.g:
Level 1 - level 5, you got 12 attribute points if you don't press the level up icon.
put all those 12 points to perception at level 5 with initial perception 34, 15 int/wisdom as shown above, you should have 46 points perception and gain:
( [46/5] + [15/10] ) * 4 = (9 + 1) * 4 = 40 max mp.
If you do level up in each level, mp you can gain are:
level 1 - level 2: [37/5] + [15/10] = 7 + 1 = 8
level 2 - level 3: [40/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 9
level 3 - level 4: [43/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 9
level 4 - level 5: [46/5] + [15/10] = 8 + 1 = 10
so total is 8+9+9+10 = 36 points max mp, 4 points less than the save up method above, the more level you save, the more you will gain.

Did you happen to notice the effect on other stats, for example resistances, when using the save-up method on stats? I have a vague memory of that being the other way around in Book 1, with resistances ending up higher if you don't save up. Does anyone know for sure what it's like in Book 2?

[dragonslayer]

For other stats like resistence, armor, hit rate, base damage, save up have no effect as far as i remember, neither in book1 or book2. they are caculated real time, equip items with +stats do affect resistence etc. it is always like 5 str for 1 melee damage. about 2 endurance for 2% all resistence.

[dragonslayer]

I decided to take another run to meet maximum number of challenges in one game, below are what already done.

startup:
rolled with base stats:
str: 13
dex: 14
endurance: 14
origin + 2 endurance + 1 concentration
female +1 dex
+20 startup stats to endurance.
Nefarious Ranger = Cleaving Weapons skills? doesn't matter.
Mercantile +5 during creation.

Forgot to do a save right after character creation, only have the one at level 1 before level up.

[dragonslayer]

Level 5:
From Level 1 - Level 4
every level up put 5 more points into Mercantile, stats points all to endurance, with 5 points in Mercantile during creation,you have 20 level Mercantile now.

Level 4 - Level 5
2 points into Mercantile, stats to endurance to reach 48 (1 more to reach maxmim 1 hp/round regen)

Bought Mercantile skill book +2 Mercantile, Dealer Hat +2 Mercantile, which makes up a total of 26 Mercantile skills level.

Why 26 Mercantile skills? at level 25, you buy and sell item to vendor at same price, at level 26, you can buy low and sell high to make money from any vendor, money won't be a problem from now on.

Finished most quests that do not need killing, main quest line reached the sparrow quest(nice exp from secret guild quest), bought the hexed magic bow at Durnore weapon vendor. trained bow weapon, foraging to level 8 and read the book to level 10, Cartography trained to level 8 (book not found from vendor yet).

Zero kills, that is almost all experience you can get as a pacifist before entering dwarf mine (forgot the ghost at dam quest, also you can gain some exp from pick locks, disarm traps if you have the skill).

All those are done within 6 game days, or only 3 if i do not walk to Durnore and back for the weapon.

From here, i decided to take the hellbringer route instead of the pacifist, now let the killing begin...

[dragonslayer]

Level 5 - Level 8:

Raised pick locks skills to level 1, or i can't reach the rogue trainer without brute open some doors before it.
All left skill points into bow weapon now, endurance raised to 50 then all went to dex(1 point was put into str wrongly)

Money making was easy, Every week, every vendor will hand you fresh new "tax", and everything in the shop is free, so you don't need the high strength to carry junks found outside and sell back, just drop them if you can't any more.

Replaced the magick bow from dwarf vendor again, if you kill enemy with the magick damage in the bow, it is not counted as killed by bow, i lost almost 10 kills before i realized this bug, Good thing is the kill rate with bow is still above 80% all the time.