Feats and Weapon Skills Discussion
Posted: May 27th, 2010, 8:20 pm
Edit note: Here is my most current list of suggestions, moved to top of the topic for easy reference.
Revised Feat Suggestions
Bow: Auto hit, 3x damage, can’t be used against an adjacent target.
Throw: Auto hit (at least one hits the selected target), volley effect, 50% chance for either a slow movement or fear effect (random one of the two not both) per hit, can’t be used against an adjacent target. Fear duration equals number of missiles in the volley for regular foes, number of missiles divided by 2 (round down) for “powerful” foes.
Unarmed: Auto hit, 4x damage, carry over damage (beyond what was needed to finish off your foe) to additional adjacent target(s).
Bludgeon: Auto hit, 2x damage, armor reduction (by 50%), 50% chance of stun for 2 rounds.
Cleave: Auto hit, multi-target (a full spin, all adjacent targets), 33% chance (each adjacent target) of stun for 1 round.
Sword: “Force Advance” - Auto hit, 2x damage, target is immediately pushed away to a different space not adjacent to player, and if no such space is available target is overwhelmed and takes 8x damage instead. No one else can move into vacated target space this round (ie, if target dies or is moved the space remains clear so that the player can choose to move into it next round).
Pierce: Auto hits, 2 attacks, ignore armor (specifically any armor damage reduction is ignored), bleed (twice the damage of the second attack applied over 20 rounds).
Shield: “Shield bash” - Auto hits, stuns (100% chance) target adjacent enemy for 2 rounds, 50% chance (each) to stun up to two other adjacent enemies (must be either side of target) for 1 round, should probably do some damage as well (some basic damage, plus benefit for shield skill, plus benefit for weight of shield).
Dodge: “Feint” – Defensive benefit (invulnerable to melee or ranged attack for this round) plus 50% bonus to hit and x2 damage for a melee attack immediately following the feint.
Revised Feat Cooldown:
I recommend requiring more skill investment to minimize the cooldown of feats across the board. Currently it's something like 100 - (skill level * 3), with a minimum level of 5. If it were adjusted to 100 - (skill level * 2) instead, our bow feat spamming friends can still do their thing, but it will require another 5 levels worth of skills for them to get there.
That also emphasizes the whole point of the feat - big benefit, spend it wisely you only get it once in a while.
Additional Suggestions for Thrown Weapons:
Thrown weapons should not cost a round to equip. (Reasoning: if start with it in hand, during round you throw and draw new weapon. It takes no more time to draw new weapon and throw. Therefore there should be no time penalty to moving thrown weapons around. If a thrown weapon launcher is ever added to the game, such as a sling, it should have a penalty to equip similar to a bow.)
Thrown weapons could be implemented with a “quiver” similar to arrows, and throwable any time the player has a free hand (either hand). With thrown weapons in this ammo bag gameplay is greatly simplified, because any left click at range can throw one of these weapons if a hand is free. (Throw from hand first if thrown weapon there, ammo bag second). You need to actually put the thrown weapon in hand if you want to use it for a point-blank attack.
Suggested further combat skill benefits (at skill level 15):
Bow: Missile conservation – chance for arrow reuse, the arrow stacks up in the backpack (if there is room) instead of being consumed. See chart below based on weight. (Optionally there could be a delay between the use and the recovery, perhaps they only show up once combat ends, or they show up but are shaded or labeled and can’t be used until combat ends. They should be dumpable though, in case the player needs the space to pick something up prior to combat end. If you leave the map while combat is going you lose them.)
Thrown: Missile conservation – chance for thrown missile reuse, the missile stacks up in the backpack (if there is room) instead of being consumed. Does not apply to thrown potions / demon oil. See chart below based on weight. (Optionally there could be a delay between the use and the recovery, perhaps they only show up once combat ends, or they show up but are shaded or labeled and can’t be used until combat ends. They should be dumpable though, in case the player needs the space to pick something up prior to combat end. If you leave the map while combat is gong you lose them.)
Unarmed: "Kick" - 10% chance of a bonus unarmed attack with any melee attack (with any weapon type) (ok, it's not necessarily a kick per se, maybe an elbow smash or whatever cool move you can imagine)
Bludgeon: “Smash” - 10% chance to stun for 2 rounds with any bludgeon attack or 1 round with any cleave attack
Cleave: “Cut” - 10% chance for x2 damage with any sword or cleave attack
and at this skill level x4 damage to objects with any cleave weapon
Sword: “Counter” - 5% chance of a "free" counter attack in response to any melee attack on the player while a sword is held
Pierce: “Bleed” - 10% chance of double attack plus bleed effect (twice the damage of the last attack applied over 20 rounds) with any pierce attack, or just the bleed effect for any cleave or sword attack;
and at this skill level all pierce attacks ignore armor (armor damage reduction does not apply)
Missile Conservation Probability versus Weight
Since the game has already built in a weight trend for missiles, presumably for balance reasons, a weight-based system seems feasible for missile conservation:
Weight Range --- Chance to Lose Missile (else can reuse it)
0.1 to 0.2 --- 2/3
0.3 to 0.5 --- 1/3
0.6 to 0.9 --- 1/4
1.0 to 1.9 --- 1/6
2.0 to 3.9 --- 1/8
4.0 to 7.9 --- 1/12
8.0+ --------- 1/20
-------------
(Orig. 1st post)
I'm interested to hear from other players on how feats are actually working, pros and cons of various feats, and how things might be improved.
Just how over-powered is the bow feat? (Is it really auto-hit, x3 damage, and using the maximum damage to boot?) Is there any ramp up to that or is it like that from level 10?
What about piercing - is it capped at two attacks per round, or can it increase to higher numbers of attacks per round? (Regardless of comments that two attacks per round can add up to so much, compared to other feats it seems pretty wimpy. And it seems to me piercing needs a bit of help from its feat to make piercing weapons somewhat attractive.)
Unarmed - a 4x attack, does this ramp up to 4x, or higher perhaps? Is it an auto-hit? If only it were easier to get some decent bonuses for unarmed to help out... Maybe making it maximum damage as well might help here? Still wouldn't quite catch up with Bow feats (especially considering they are ranged). To really show a bit of love, without unbalancing it too much, how about maximum damage x4, and if you don't need all the damage it can be continued onto other adjacent enemies if there are any?
Thrown... I so much want to like this skill. Supposedly thrown should be able to crank out much better damage than a bow shot, enough to make it worthwhile to lug around all that weight... but that doesn't at all seem true in the game. Then the feat - nice idea, but if I am skilled enough to hit multiple targets with shots shouldn't I be able to hit the same target with multiple shots? Ideas to make thrown feat better? (Multiple shots or damage multiplier? Some kind of cripple / slow effect?) Ideas to help throwing in general? (Perhaps launchers, such as slings, which could hold bonuses similar to a bow? Magical thrown weapons that return and can be reused - and enchanted like melee weapons or bows?)
Ok there's a whole bunch of stuff to get things started!
Revised Feat Suggestions
Bow: Auto hit, 3x damage, can’t be used against an adjacent target.
Throw: Auto hit (at least one hits the selected target), volley effect, 50% chance for either a slow movement or fear effect (random one of the two not both) per hit, can’t be used against an adjacent target. Fear duration equals number of missiles in the volley for regular foes, number of missiles divided by 2 (round down) for “powerful” foes.
Unarmed: Auto hit, 4x damage, carry over damage (beyond what was needed to finish off your foe) to additional adjacent target(s).
Bludgeon: Auto hit, 2x damage, armor reduction (by 50%), 50% chance of stun for 2 rounds.
Cleave: Auto hit, multi-target (a full spin, all adjacent targets), 33% chance (each adjacent target) of stun for 1 round.
Sword: “Force Advance” - Auto hit, 2x damage, target is immediately pushed away to a different space not adjacent to player, and if no such space is available target is overwhelmed and takes 8x damage instead. No one else can move into vacated target space this round (ie, if target dies or is moved the space remains clear so that the player can choose to move into it next round).
Pierce: Auto hits, 2 attacks, ignore armor (specifically any armor damage reduction is ignored), bleed (twice the damage of the second attack applied over 20 rounds).
Shield: “Shield bash” - Auto hits, stuns (100% chance) target adjacent enemy for 2 rounds, 50% chance (each) to stun up to two other adjacent enemies (must be either side of target) for 1 round, should probably do some damage as well (some basic damage, plus benefit for shield skill, plus benefit for weight of shield).
Dodge: “Feint” – Defensive benefit (invulnerable to melee or ranged attack for this round) plus 50% bonus to hit and x2 damage for a melee attack immediately following the feint.
Revised Feat Cooldown:
I recommend requiring more skill investment to minimize the cooldown of feats across the board. Currently it's something like 100 - (skill level * 3), with a minimum level of 5. If it were adjusted to 100 - (skill level * 2) instead, our bow feat spamming friends can still do their thing, but it will require another 5 levels worth of skills for them to get there.
That also emphasizes the whole point of the feat - big benefit, spend it wisely you only get it once in a while.
Additional Suggestions for Thrown Weapons:
Thrown weapons should not cost a round to equip. (Reasoning: if start with it in hand, during round you throw and draw new weapon. It takes no more time to draw new weapon and throw. Therefore there should be no time penalty to moving thrown weapons around. If a thrown weapon launcher is ever added to the game, such as a sling, it should have a penalty to equip similar to a bow.)
Thrown weapons could be implemented with a “quiver” similar to arrows, and throwable any time the player has a free hand (either hand). With thrown weapons in this ammo bag gameplay is greatly simplified, because any left click at range can throw one of these weapons if a hand is free. (Throw from hand first if thrown weapon there, ammo bag second). You need to actually put the thrown weapon in hand if you want to use it for a point-blank attack.
Suggested further combat skill benefits (at skill level 15):
Bow: Missile conservation – chance for arrow reuse, the arrow stacks up in the backpack (if there is room) instead of being consumed. See chart below based on weight. (Optionally there could be a delay between the use and the recovery, perhaps they only show up once combat ends, or they show up but are shaded or labeled and can’t be used until combat ends. They should be dumpable though, in case the player needs the space to pick something up prior to combat end. If you leave the map while combat is going you lose them.)
Thrown: Missile conservation – chance for thrown missile reuse, the missile stacks up in the backpack (if there is room) instead of being consumed. Does not apply to thrown potions / demon oil. See chart below based on weight. (Optionally there could be a delay between the use and the recovery, perhaps they only show up once combat ends, or they show up but are shaded or labeled and can’t be used until combat ends. They should be dumpable though, in case the player needs the space to pick something up prior to combat end. If you leave the map while combat is gong you lose them.)
Unarmed: "Kick" - 10% chance of a bonus unarmed attack with any melee attack (with any weapon type) (ok, it's not necessarily a kick per se, maybe an elbow smash or whatever cool move you can imagine)
Bludgeon: “Smash” - 10% chance to stun for 2 rounds with any bludgeon attack or 1 round with any cleave attack
Cleave: “Cut” - 10% chance for x2 damage with any sword or cleave attack
and at this skill level x4 damage to objects with any cleave weapon
Sword: “Counter” - 5% chance of a "free" counter attack in response to any melee attack on the player while a sword is held
Pierce: “Bleed” - 10% chance of double attack plus bleed effect (twice the damage of the last attack applied over 20 rounds) with any pierce attack, or just the bleed effect for any cleave or sword attack;
and at this skill level all pierce attacks ignore armor (armor damage reduction does not apply)
Missile Conservation Probability versus Weight
Since the game has already built in a weight trend for missiles, presumably for balance reasons, a weight-based system seems feasible for missile conservation:
Weight Range --- Chance to Lose Missile (else can reuse it)
0.1 to 0.2 --- 2/3
0.3 to 0.5 --- 1/3
0.6 to 0.9 --- 1/4
1.0 to 1.9 --- 1/6
2.0 to 3.9 --- 1/8
4.0 to 7.9 --- 1/12
8.0+ --------- 1/20
-------------
(Orig. 1st post)
I'm interested to hear from other players on how feats are actually working, pros and cons of various feats, and how things might be improved.
Just how over-powered is the bow feat? (Is it really auto-hit, x3 damage, and using the maximum damage to boot?) Is there any ramp up to that or is it like that from level 10?
What about piercing - is it capped at two attacks per round, or can it increase to higher numbers of attacks per round? (Regardless of comments that two attacks per round can add up to so much, compared to other feats it seems pretty wimpy. And it seems to me piercing needs a bit of help from its feat to make piercing weapons somewhat attractive.)
Unarmed - a 4x attack, does this ramp up to 4x, or higher perhaps? Is it an auto-hit? If only it were easier to get some decent bonuses for unarmed to help out... Maybe making it maximum damage as well might help here? Still wouldn't quite catch up with Bow feats (especially considering they are ranged). To really show a bit of love, without unbalancing it too much, how about maximum damage x4, and if you don't need all the damage it can be continued onto other adjacent enemies if there are any?
Thrown... I so much want to like this skill. Supposedly thrown should be able to crank out much better damage than a bow shot, enough to make it worthwhile to lug around all that weight... but that doesn't at all seem true in the game. Then the feat - nice idea, but if I am skilled enough to hit multiple targets with shots shouldn't I be able to hit the same target with multiple shots? Ideas to make thrown feat better? (Multiple shots or damage multiplier? Some kind of cripple / slow effect?) Ideas to help throwing in general? (Perhaps launchers, such as slings, which could hold bonuses similar to a bow? Magical thrown weapons that return and can be reused - and enchanted like melee weapons or bows?)
Ok there's a whole bunch of stuff to get things started!