What's missing??

Here's where all things related to Book II are being discussed!

What do you feel is missing from Book II??

More quests. :?:
80
36%
More difficulty options. :!:
16
7%
More enemies!! Grimlock Smash!! :twisted:
24
11%
Some wildlife would be nice. Add a little... flair. :idea:
29
13%
More NPCs!! Bring on the victims - er populace. :?
33
15%
Some previously mentioned feature that didn't make it in the game. I really wanted it!! *pout* :(
9
4%
More in-game lore. I'm a read-a-holic. 8)
12
5%
I think Book II is pretty well rounded. :)
16
7%
CrazyBernie's ugly mug! Grimlock Smash More!! :shock:
1
0%
 
Total votes: 220

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Buckets
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Buckets » June 4th, 2010, 2:02 am

agnari wrote:method of splitting stacks of elixiers. typically a right click will let you grab one of a stack (as in alch stacks) and move it out of the stack. but with elixier's it just consumes it. early on when i can i collect/horde stuff i know will be needed later but then when needed the stacks are too burdensome (ok NEXT game i won't make that mistake). what i'd like to do is take X from the stack and go thru a quest and then come back later for more.
If you hold shift and click on the stack of potions, you get a dialogue asking you how many you want to pick up.

110kaakeli
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Re: What's missing??

Post by 110kaakeli » June 4th, 2010, 2:42 am

More skills to coming Books. Since foraging is already in game it would be logical to extend skills in that area. For example crafting to make your own rings from metal, enchant skill to imbue those rings with magic, some skill to make use of killed monster like skinning a troll and making armor of its hide and etc.

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SpottedShroom
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Re: What's missing??

Post by SpottedShroom » June 4th, 2010, 8:21 pm

A more interactive world, ala the Ultima series: more NPCs, more non-combat stuff to do, more interactive items. Of course, high levels of detail are difficult with a small development team, but hey, you asked.

Simone
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Simone » June 5th, 2010, 7:43 am

helivoy wrote:Also: the ability to wear more than two rings and one amulet. We can do so in real life, having more than two fingers and ample chests!
Would bracelets be enough? When you said real life I instantly thought of putting magic rings on my toes.

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Re: What's missing??

Post by RasterOps » June 5th, 2010, 12:30 pm

Higher resolution, you know, like 1600x1200 or greater and HD/Wide-screen as well. But I can wait until Book III for this.

Saving Games:
  • Sorted games files, user specified by column header click, either by name or date, and a default setting.
  • Save game info displayed when selecting a game to load that includes the game date, location, character name class and level. Would require a separate button to actually load the game.
  • More save game slots.
Training:
  • Some training for stats granting 2 points per class in a particular attribute. Only two courses per attribute, Introductory and Advanced, totaling four stats per attribute. Each course would require a fee with Advanced classes costing more and one game week to complete the training. There could Arenas for Strength, Speed, Dexterity and Endurance. A University with four class rooms for teaching Intelligence, Wisdom, Perception and Concentration.
  • Advanced trainers that can add another four skill points, 2 at a time and at even greater cost.
  • Maybe a Mercantile or Lore skill trainer.
@ agnari
Respawning enemies in a reasonable amount of time, e.g. M&M VI (IIRC) did this in 6 month intervals.

@ helivoy
Two rings are fairly common in games of this genre. It is my understanding that more than one per hand would cause magical interference of some kind.

@ Forral and helivoy

Multiple rings could be a choice that should lower the difficulty.

Are You Man Enuf?
Well there are no bracelets in the game. How about one of those? And perhaps the most ideal bracelet of all could be a charm bracelet that allows you to add multiple charms on one bracelet. Man that sounds gay... not that there's anything wrong with that.

Special Orders Don't Upset Us
I would like to go to a shop and order an item. So in another week when the shops restock, it'll be there. I'll pay extra. It's just a dialog option, click on it and a list opens of options to choose from (the list should not include items already in the shop). The list doesn't have to be complete, e.g. Luci has heard these items may be available if specially ordered. This also implies a shop's special order list still may not have what you are looking for so you go to another shop.

Seconded
More equipment configuration buttons, also assigned to function keys.

Ow, my head. Where am I?
One of my favorite circumstances is when I am captured and all my gear taken away from me. Now I must somehow escape my captor and recover my equipment, relying wholly on my raw abilities.

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IJBall
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Re: What's missing??

Post by IJBall » June 5th, 2010, 1:00 pm

RasterOps wrote:Saving Games:
  • Sorted games files, user specified by column header click, either by name or date, and a default setting.
  • Save game info displayed when selecting a game to load that includes the game date, location, character name class and level. Would require a separate button to actually load the game.
  • More save game slots.
Following up on this, I'd still like to also have an additional "Are you sure you want to Save? [Yes/No]" dialogue box option before finally game saving, to give some of us one extra chance to not save into the wrong save game slot and overwrite an old gamefile. (I requested this way back before Book II was released...)

I haven't done this yet in Book II, but I bet it's just a matter of time, and additional "Are you sure?" dialogue box layer before saving could really cutdown on accidental save game overwrites.

King_Elendil
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Re: What's missing??

Post by King_Elendil » June 5th, 2010, 4:10 pm

Auto-saves For those of us like me who get sucked into the game, and after a while of playing forget to keep saving, then when I die I scream: "Oh no, I haven't saved in half an hour :cry: ." Or maybe save-game prompts, like when you enter a new map a window pops up that says something like this: "Would you like to save your game before you explore this region? [Yes] [No]".

edit: small grammar correction
Last edited by King_Elendil on June 6th, 2010, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My List of Good Games,
~Eschalon Book II
~The Battle for Wesnoth
~Lugaru
Do you know any games that I am missing? Please PM any ideas to me ;)

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Oshkell
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Oshkell » June 6th, 2010, 1:48 pm

Crazy Bernie mentioned something about a lemonade stand... yes, I'd really like to see one of those in a wasteland-type area. One with a little girl with pink ribbons in her hair, shouting advertisements. And then I'd like to check my thirst gauge and see if it's a hallucination or not.

Hey, that's an idea... now, I've never let my thirst gauge empty out, but what happens if you do? Do you hallucinate, or just lose HP? Random thought, there.

I've heard the "crafting" horse beaten to death, so I'll leave it alone.... poor horsie. :(

I'd really like to see some kind of Fletchery, whether it's just a result of having a high Bow Weapons skill, or a stand-alone skill. It'd be nice to have a few arrows waiting for me in a satchel outside my tent, much the way that foraging for reagents works. Maybe if you had high levels in the skill, or something to compliment it (Is "Blacksmithing" going to be a skill for Book III? o.o) then you could start making higher quality arrows.

I'd also like to see an arena! Respawning dungeons might be cool, but I don't think I'd bother even checking them for critters if I could just go to an arena, maybe pay a modest fee to fight, and then thwack things for their organs so that I can make potions out of them. (Noximander Venom and Raven Hearts have to come from SOMEwhere... :P )

How about guards in shops? One thing that mildly annoyed me was that when I killed the werewolf shopkeeper, all of his wares were not available for pilfering. I understand it'd be a little weird if every shopkeeper was madly powerful (eliminating the need for guards) but it would be nice if there was some way to loot establishments. Whether this is done through stealth or force, I think it could be fun. Of course, I'm sure some kind of balance issue comes into play here... I'm not really sure what feasible suggestion I could make to solve it.
I listen,
I laugh,
I think for a while
As I sit in the dark
And smile.

Wachunga
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Wachunga » June 6th, 2010, 4:06 pm

I'm a big fan of Basilisk Games, but my recent play-through of Book 2 has left me feeling a bit disappointed. Don't get me wrong: I don't regret my purchase and I'm still referring friends to the game.

After some reflection, I think it boils down to lack of flavour. Where are the quirky NPCs? Witty dialogue? Memorable characters? One of the best things about old-school RPGs, in my mind, was the emphasis on story and characters, and I think Book 2 is missing the latter.

Flavour also comes from quests. To my recollection, every Book 2 quest is a variation of the following:
  • Deliver/collect X to/from Y
  • Speak with X
  • Find/destroy X
How about some of these types of quests?
  • Escape from X
  • Rescue X from Y (or kidnap)
  • Escort X to Y
  • Accomplish X in Y turns/days/whatever
  • Explore X (eg reveal whole map through cartography)
(There are lots of others, but you get the point.)

Here are some other ideas for improvement I jotted down during my recent play-through:
  • dialogue window: always allow using cursor keys and ENTER/ESC to navigate choices (ESC should always go back)
  • character stats: show descriptions when right-clicking individual stats
  • inventory: add some way to get scroll/potion description... currently you can only read/drink it once it's in your inventory
  • enemies: should always be able to look without attacking, even with ranged weapon like bow equipped
  • containers: something like shift+click should grab all contents
  • automap: allow players to add notes (at certain cartography skill?), eg to leave reminders about missed chests etc.
  • automap: details revealed through temporarily improved cartography (eg magic amulet) shouldn't be overwritten with less detail once cartography decreases
  • automap: always show name of current area, not just when entering/leaving
  • day/night indicator: clicking should show in-game date/time to clarify when shops update ("next week") and to increase immersion
  • map design: some maps require you to walk deep into unknown/black squares to trigger transition, while others you just need to bump into black squares
  • alchemy mixer: provide "reset" button for convenience
  • recipe book: de-emphasize recipes that cannot be made based on currently available reagents
  • spell book: de-emphasize spell levels that cannot yet be cast due to elemental/divine skill

Tyranthraxus
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Tyranthraxus » June 6th, 2010, 4:18 pm

Oshkell wrote:Crazy Bernie mentioned something about a lemonade stand... yes, I'd really like to see one of those in a wasteland-type area. One with a little girl with pink ribbons in her hair, shouting advertisements.
Must...
fight...
the...
urge...
to...

Shift-click. Die witch, die! :twisted:

Fletchery does sound like a solid idea for a skill, just wondering though, would too many skills dilute the game to much?
I remember Blade of Destiny having what seemed like hundreds, most of which you would never get to use.

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Kreador Freeaxe
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » June 6th, 2010, 5:48 pm

I think making the skills interact would be the most helpful. If you just have foraging, you should probably find food and not much else. If you have foraging and alchemy, you start to find ingredients as well. Foraging and Bow, you can make arrows. Foraging and Thrown weapons, you find rocks and perhaps at higher levels start to be able to make spears.

I realize this might be more complicated than BW can or wants to get with the game engine, however.
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IJBall
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Re: What's missing??

Post by IJBall » June 6th, 2010, 7:14 pm

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:I think making the skills interact would be the most helpful. If you just have foraging, you should probably find food and not much else. If you have foraging and alchemy, you start to find ingredients as well. Foraging and Bow, you can make arrows. Foraging and Thrown weapons, you find rocks and perhaps at higher levels start to be able to make spears.
I very much like this idea, actually. I already don't like that Foraging doesn't get you food items like it should, but the way you've suggested it should work is even better IMHO.

In addition to all this, though, I still think a certain percentage of arrows and thrown weapons should be recoverable from killed mobs (via loot sacks) - and perhaps the % chance of recovery can also scale with levels in Bow or Thrown Weapons? That would be cool...

(As an aside, I think the Repair skill is too powerful as currently constructed - Level 1 in Repair seems to be all anyone needs, which kinds of defeats the purpose of a having a skill IMHO...)
Wachunga wrote:Here are some other ideas for improvement I jotted down during my recent play-through:
  1. dialogue window: always allow using cursor keys and ENTER/ESC to navigate choices (ESC should always go back)
  2. character stats: show descriptions when right-clicking individual stats
  3. inventory: add some way to get scroll/potion description... currently you can only read/drink it once it's in your inventory
  4. enemies: should always be able to look without attacking, even with ranged weapon like bow equipped
  5. containers: something like shift+click should grab all contents
  6. automap: allow players to add notes (at certain cartography skill?), eg to leave reminders about missed chests etc.
  7. automap: details revealed through temporarily improved cartography (eg magic amulet) shouldn't be overwritten with less detail once cartography decreases
  8. automap: always show name of current area, not just when entering/leaving
  9. day/night indicator: clicking should show in-game date/time to clarify when shops update ("next week") and to increase immersion
  10. map design: some maps require you to walk deep into unknown/black squares to trigger transition, while others you just need to bump into black squares
  11. alchemy mixer: provide "reset" button for convenience
  12. recipe book: de-emphasize recipes that cannot be made based on currently available reagents
  13. spell book: de-emphasize spell levels that cannot yet be cast due to elemental/divine skill
I suggested your #2 going into Book II - control-clicking the Stats window for both Skill and Attribute descriptions - it didn't happen, but I'm hoping it'll happen for Book III.

Your #3 has been brought up in another thread, and I agree that there needs to be a way to get potion descriptions from your Inventory (it would improve game interface for sure IMO). Ditto your #6 - others have suggested that idea.

Your #4 & #5 & #8 are good ideas that I really like. (#8 really wouldn't be hard to add to the minimap - just put a little "title" field at the bottom...) And your #4 could actually give you useful info - e.g. after smacking half the hit points off a mob, the description could read something like, "You see a Devilmander - it looks pretty beat up" (vs. "You see a Devilmander - it's in perfect health!").

Your #9 can be at least partially done already - but you need a Chronograph. Currently, there's no way to figure out the "real date" in the game, though I've previously suggested that it would be really cool if a "calendar"-like feature could be added to the game - perhaps for Book III.

Your #7 is I think considered a "game mechanic" by BW, so I don't expect that'll be changed.

As to your #1, I'm still disappointed that everyone (Eschalon, Avernum, Soldak's games) etc. have all gone to the "branching dialogue" format - one of the things I loved about the original Ultimas was being able to enter any word you wanted into the little dialogue prompt to see what NPCs would say in response. But I guess no one's going back to that system... :(

silverkitty
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Re: What's missing??

Post by silverkitty » June 7th, 2010, 2:24 am

Wachunga wrote:Here are some other ideas for improvement I jotted down during my recent play-through:
  • character stats: show descriptions when right-clicking individual stats
  • inventory: add some way to get scroll/potion description... currently you can only read/drink it once it's in your inventory
  • enemies: should always be able to look without attacking, even with ranged weapon like bow equipped
  • day/night indicator: clicking should show in-game date/time to clarify when shops update ("next week") and to increase immersion
These if you change the description of the first and last ones one from "right click" and "click" to just "add some way..." then all of these fall under one heading of "increase value of tooltips in the game".

Current the only tooltip when you hover over an inventory item is the "base" description, but with scrolls and potions, if you hover more than a second or two, it would be great if that tooltip expanded to include a description of the effect (as visible in shops)

I'd also throw in that the descriptions of attributes (strength, etc) should tooltip up when hovered over on the stats screens, just like skills should.

----- either that OR -----

replace "right click to describe, except when it means right-click to use, or right click to throw a spell at" (because it's inconsistent) with "control-click to describe. always and for anything." and make it ultimately super consistent. even the ground, if you control-click, should say something like "grassland, 14 feet distant". or "sconce, 5 feet distant, click when adjacent to remove a torch from your inventory and put it in the sconce." or "powder keg, 28 feet distant, click when adjacent to pick up."

note that in some circumstances that frees up right click to mean other things -- like in the spell window, it might mean "prepare at maximum castable level and dismiss the spell window" -- and in a shop it might mean "sell/buy it(all of them) without asking about it"

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Kreador Freeaxe
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Re: What's missing??

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » June 7th, 2010, 8:09 am

silverkitty wrote:replace "right click to describe, except when it means right-click to use, or right click to throw a spell at" (because it's inconsistent) with "control-click to describe. always and for anything." and make it ultimately super consistent. even the ground, if you control-click, should say something like "grassland, 14 feet distant". or "sconce, 5 feet distant, click when adjacent to remove a torch from your inventory and put it in the sconce." or "powder keg, 28 feet distant, click when adjacent to pick up."

note that in some circumstances that frees up right click to mean other things -- like in the spell window, it might mean "prepare at maximum castable level and dismiss the spell window" -- and in a shop it might mean "sell/buy it(all of them) without asking about it"
The only problem with this is that it will impair cross-platform usability, as Mac-users who have single button mice use cntl-click in place of right-click. Perhaps if these were linked to cmd-click instead (or would that inconvenience Windows users?).
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SpottedShroom
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Re: What's missing??

Post by SpottedShroom » June 7th, 2010, 8:13 am

There's always the possibility of using click and hold. Several Mac apps use that as a substitute for right-click.

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