the grind is wearing me down

[lockjaw]

I can't seem to get to a point where I'm having any fun

I have to admit the leveling is just about right, except that I always seem to be far enough behind that everything is a grind.

level up: wolves kill me, bonebiters kill me
level up: snow wolves kill me, mire trolls kill me, devil manders kill me

now the problem is that I level VERY SLOWLY, because I can only kill one thing at a time (literally), and then have to recover.

(I can't figure out how I'm ever going to be able to kill goliath whatevers)

I don't have this recollection of book I.

clearly I'm missing something

[Farwalker]

How you develop your character can make a huge difference on how hard or easy the gameplay is. Without knowing what you're trying it's hard to comment much, but some things seem cool and just don't work well in the game.

Possible suggestions:
1) Hunt via camping for a while to try to get ahead of the curve (but of course that's grindy too).
2) Pick one really powerful combat strategy and build your character around that rather than spreading skills too widely. Bow feat build is one example, hide/invisibility build is another.
3) Try a different character build and start from scratch, using what you've learned to your advantage.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

As Farwalker said, how you built the character is very important to understand why you're having this trouble. Also, have you been taking on the easier side quests along the way? They help you to build experience and get stuff to sell to make money for training.

If you're doing a straight melee fighter, it's really going to be tough on you, as you'll take a lot of damage along the way until your skills are high enough. Ranged combat abilities of some sort are a big advantage, and looking at situations tactically to give yourself every possible advantage in combat for your style is important.

[KillingMoon]

The game rewards one trick ponies. If choosing a weapon, I think it's easiest to up it to the max level 5 at start up. Raise it to 10 at the first level up in game for your special weapon feat.
From then, when going in battle, I seem to be waiting mostly for that special weapon feat to become available. If I'm attacking without it I'm taking more damage and need to recover again, so then it's best to take a little stroll for the weapon feat to return.

You can raise your weapon ability to 10 at the first level up when you save skill points at character creation. It costs 3 skill points to gain the first level in a skill at the character screen, while only a 100 gold or so when learning it from a book or trainer, so the more skills you choose at start up or level up, the more points you're wasting.

Also, raise the attributes that support your skills most.

[Gorgon Rider]

What level is your character now, and how have you built him? Are you upgrading your gear when you get the opportunity? Are you using potions and magic (if your character is capable of the latter)?

[lockjaw]

If you're doing a straight melee fighter, it's really going to be tough on you, as you'll take a lot of damage along the way until your skills are high enough

yep. I really wanted to play straight melee out of the gate and it was brutal. I did try to focus on armor and weapons ONLY. The problem with doing that is gold mining. I couldn't seem to acquire enough gold to keep me in decent weapons, and to keep those weapons repaired !

so then I did the forage/alchemy thing, but then I fell behind on weapon/armor skill. I managed to get my weapon skill up enough, but I'm light armor and getting smacked aroud badly before I can get anything deaded which is why I need constant buffing. That's why it seems to me, that you _have_ to have alchemy or magic so that you can stay buffed for combat.

Things like venomous blue slugs from hell move fast enough that a bow doesn't help. Snow wolves come in packs, as they should , AND move fast. So while the bow helped with moldy thingies, it's really not doing me any good now.

The side quests are a big deal ! I got stuck like this before, and managed to find some additional quests to get me going. Currently I seem to be in a limbo. Currently I _have_ to use haste/ogre/ something else to make it through combat and I can't keep up with the amount of gold/ingredients to buy/make. Well I can if I camp enough, but I'd have to spend a LOT of time camping (and this is with a high forage skill).

Bceause I have to buy lots of stuff I can never seem to get enough gold to get trained and that's hurting too. Grrrrrr...

I'm going to try to get forage to 10 and see if I can forage/brew my way out of it. The problem I see is that moving up 1 more level isn't going to help, the things that can kill me now are _still_ going to be able to kill me. It might work, otherwise it's time to start over, AGAIN

Thanks very much for the suggestions.

[silverkitty]

next time you have 3600 gold, walk to the dwarf town - avoiding all combat on the way there - and buy 8 levels of repair from the blacksmith. now your camping time isn't just making alchemy ingredients, but also fixing your armor (which is a big money saver) and fixing your loot (which increases the resale value).

[Gorgon Rider]

Lockjaw, a suggestion re the armor skills: don't get more than one level in either heavy armor or light armor. I actually have both at level 1 on my current character and find it's all I need. Further investment only increase the percentage chance that you'll take half damage from any particular hit, and does not reduce the damage taken by a greater amount with more investment in it. I didn't know this my first time through and 'wasted' many skill points in armor. Now I'm using those points elsewhere and finding it suits me far better.

I also find that 10 in Foraging is a good amount (supplement with rings if you can get them). This allows you to fill your bag in about 8 hours of rest time. If you need gold, you can sell off the ingredients and you don't have to rest for too many days to get a good group of reagents to sell for a decent return.

[lockjaw]

well I finally broke through...

forage was the key and a high alchemy. that and a lot of camping. I was able to start enchanting weapon & armor and that helped a lot to survive encounters. plus I got to 10 in sword as soon as possible and that helped too. really a lot of little things. the problem is that if you don't have good strategy to start you get into a lot of trouble.

forage + alchemy is a really powerful combo. I'm able to make enough potions to survive encounters now. plus finding that petrified wood is a big win !

I realized after I thought about it, that the high alchemy and forage skill is precisely what kept me from having good combat skills...

I _still_ think that this game punishes pure melee characters in a big way. without alchemy or enough spell power to buff, your in for a tough time.

thanks again for the suggestions.

[KillingMoon]

forage was the key and a high alchemy. that and a lot of camping.

Had a sleepy game, had you?

the problem is that if you don't have good strategy to start you get into a lot of trouble.

This is very true. You need to know in advance what you're going to do. That's almost impossible on your first run through the game. Familiarity with the game mechanics from Book I helps somewhat, of course.

I _still_ think that this game punishes pure melee characters in a big way. without alchemy or enough spell power to buff, your in for a tough time.

I believe there is consensus about this. It's not difficult in this game to keep a distance from your enemies, and this helps ranged attackers.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

I _still_ think that this game punishes pure melee characters in a big way. without alchemy or enough spell power to buff, your in for a tough time.

Which sort of makes it realistic. Melee is the toughest thing in real life, too. You're going to take more damage because your enemies can hit you, and if you don't carefully use the environment to limit the ability of ranged combatants from getting to you, then you're going to be in even more trouble.

I think, in fact, that Pure Melee should be another challenge setting in the game. To never use a ranged attack directly on an opponent. That would be tough.

[Oshkell]

I believe Spotted Shroom would have some suggestions on how to make a pure melee character. As I understand, you have to have a fairly narrow skill and attribute point allotment, but I remember him posting something quite amusing about how he was so tough that he transcended the need to eat, drink, and sleep. Lol.

[Gorgon Rider]

Yeah, he pumped his Endurance sky high and entered some higher zen state where sustenance and sleep were no longer required.

[Randomizer]

But as a melee warrior you need to camp to repair equipment.

A true warrior version of melee warrior is even tougher since you can't get the extra 21 to base armor by using alchemy to imbue armor so you have to hope that you have enough money when the better items are available in the shops.

[Oshkell]

Having finished with my first successful playthrough, I decided to try something. Effectively a "Vow of Poverty" monk. I'm not going to use any weapons, armor, magical rings, amulets, etc. No equippables at all, except for perhaps thrown weapons.

I tried KillingMoon's advice - at character creation, bought 5 levels of Unarmed Combat, and saved 2 skill points. When I reached level 2, I was able to get my Unarmed Combat skill to level 10... the feat REALLY turned things around in my favor. I was roflstomping Red Wolves at Level 2. Granted, I could only handle 1 at a time, maybe 2 if I was fortunate and had a healing potion, but yeah - wow - seriously.

I'm also seeing how very useful the Medicine skill is, for melee types. My last character didn't have a single rank in it, but this one has 5 at the moment - tremendous difference in HP regeneration rate.

In case you were wondering, those are actually the only two skills that my character has! I am, however, running around and buying up other skills with coin.

If all goes well, by the time I am level 10 or so, I may be able to run around like Shroom's fighter, not eating or drinking, and since I'm not using any equipment at all, I won't have to rest and repair either.

lockjaw, I don't know if that might be a solution you're looking for, but half an hour into the game I was having a BLAST. I'd highly recommend you try it, just for kicks.