ZipCrypto

Here's where all things related to Book II are being discussed!
argv
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 6:26 am

ZipCrypto

Post by argv » July 5th, 2010, 6:32 am

I went to extract Eschalon 2's awesome music so I could listen to it while I work, only to find that it's encrypted!

I see I can buy the soundtrack, but on the condition that I also buy the game again and pay a shipping fee, for something that's already on my computer.

What gives? I thought this was supposed to be DRM-free, customer-respecting and such. :(

User avatar
Sslaxx
Council Member
Posts: 169
Joined: April 28th, 2008, 3:53 pm
Location: Malvern, UK
Contact:

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by Sslaxx » July 5th, 2010, 6:36 am

Regarding the soundtrack, quite a bit of it licensed only to be used in the game itself, therefore cannot be made available outside the game (hence the encrypted zip file). You can go ahead and violate your own license agreement, if you can crack the password.
Stuart "Sslaxx" Moore.

argv
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 6:26 am

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by argv » July 5th, 2010, 6:47 am

I don't see anything in the license agreement about the music. Could you clarify?

Also, not all of the music is licensed like you say, as I saw on another forum thread, so why is all of it encrypted?

User avatar
Sslaxx
Council Member
Posts: 169
Joined: April 28th, 2008, 3:53 pm
Location: Malvern, UK
Contact:

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by Sslaxx » July 5th, 2010, 7:08 am

argv wrote:I don't see anything in the license agreement about the music. Could you clarify?

Also, not all of the music is licensed like you say, as I saw on another forum thread, so why is all of it encrypted?
Not the license agreement that comes with the game - the license agreement BW had to agree with to be able to use the music he has.

And did you buy the digital download version then? Because the soundtrack files that BW is able to share with us are on the DVD.
Stuart "Sslaxx" Moore.

argv
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 6:26 am

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by argv » July 5th, 2010, 7:24 am

Sslaxx wrote:Not the license agreement that comes with the game - the license agreement BW had to agree with to be able to use the music he has.
He may have agreed to that license, but I certainly didn't. How can I be held to a contract I never even saw, much less agreed to?
And did you buy the digital download version then? Because the soundtrack files that BW is able to share with us are on the DVD.
That's the problem. In order to get the soundtrack, I would have to pay more than I did for the game it's part of! Even the crooks at the big music labels don't charge this much for a music album, and a music album (albeit a good one) is all it is to me.

I'm a customer, not a thief or a cash cow. I'm willing to pay more for the soundtrack, but $35.95+shipping and waiting a week is not reasonable. I'd like to work out something that is.

User avatar
SpottedShroom
Captain Magnate
Captain Magnate
Posts: 1371
Joined: June 4th, 2010, 6:18 pm

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by SpottedShroom » July 5th, 2010, 8:02 am

argv wrote:I went to extract Eschalon 2's awesome music so I could listen to it while I work, only to find that it's encrypted!
Some people have manage to decrypt the game material archive, but for obvious reasons you won't find instructions here on how to do it. Your nickname suggests you might be able to figure it out yourself, but...
argv wrote:I see I can buy the soundtrack, but on the condition that I also buy the game again and pay a shipping fee, for something that's already on my computer.
...we'd all prefer you buy the DVD, so BW makes money, allowing him to make Book III for us to enjoy. :)

But seriously, most games you don't get the soundtrack for free when you buy it. Heck, most games you can't even buy the soundtrack separately.

User avatar
BasiliskWrangler
Site Admin
Posts: 3810
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:31 am
Location: The Grid
Contact:

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by BasiliskWrangler » July 5th, 2010, 8:10 am

A couple of things here:

1) You need to understand the difference between DRM (Digital Rights Management) and data packing. Just because we pack the game's data to save space and protect against unauthorized use has nothing to do with your rights to play the game. The game is DRM free, and when you buy it you have the right to play it on any computer, forever. You have the right to back the game up and make copies for your own use. We never take that right away from you. That is what "Digital Rights Management free" means.

This does not give you the right to reverse engineer the game, or use the data files for any other purpose.

2) The music itself is in two forms: tracks that were written for us is music owned by Basilisk Games. We can do anything we want with these tracks (we choose to make the tracks available to people who buy the DVD). Other tracks that we licensed cannot be used for anything but the game itself- it is illegal for us to distribute the tracks. However, we can make a list of tracks and where we purchased them from, and you can go buy the tracks yourself ($30-$50 each) if you really want.

3) If you bought the download version but now you want the DVD? We can work with you. Email us your name and/or order information, and we'll send you a special discount code to buy the DVD for only $10 plus shipping. It won't cost you any more than if you bought the DVD originally.
See my ramblings and keep up with the latest news on Twitter & Facebook.

User avatar
Kreador Freeaxe
Major General
Major General
Posts: 2383
Joined: April 26th, 2008, 3:44 pm

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » July 5th, 2010, 8:27 am

Or you buy the DVD, get the separate license code and give it to a friend so he/she can download and play the game while you get the DVD to keep.
---

Kill 'em all, let the sysadmin sort 'em out.

argv
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 6:26 am

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by argv » July 5th, 2010, 9:22 am

Oh, okay. Thank you for setting me straight.

AstralWanderer
Fellowcraft Apprentice
Posts: 58
Joined: November 24th, 2007, 4:39 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by AstralWanderer » July 6th, 2010, 6:02 am

BasiliskWrangler wrote:...Just because we pack the game's data to save space and protect against unauthorized use has nothing to do with your rights to play the game....Other tracks that we licensed cannot be used for anything but the game itself- it is illegal for us to distribute the tracks.
What gives with the idea of "you can only listen to this music while playing the game"? It's an insane restriction on the level of "you can only use this road when driving a yellow car". Are there lawyers on standby ready to pounce on users with the temerity to record such music for later playback? (an example of fair use under US law).

One of the plus points of book 1 was the ability to view (and play) the (quite excellent) music files outside of the game so having that music locked away in a packed file is hardly progress. As the "new" music I've so far heard (the main menu theme) is closely based on the previous Eschalon theme, surely that can't be subject to a more restrictive license as it would be a derivative work?

In addition, that packed file makes Book 2 significantly slower when entering a new area (typically a 5 second delay on a 2.4Ghz Q6600 system). Would it not at least make sense to give users the choice on whether to have the game data compressed (to save space) or not? (to improve speed).

silverkitty
Senior Council Member
Posts: 243
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 9:41 pm

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by silverkitty » July 6th, 2010, 6:49 am

Basilisk Games isn't Microsoft, he doesn't have a battalion of lawyers on retainer or anything. So, while it might not make sense to you (or him, or me), he was just answering your question as well as he could to his layman's understanding of the law.
And while it sounds really complicated when phrased your way with the yellow car example, it sounds pretty simple to me: "BW licensed some music to include with his game (only)." Now, while, you may think it's fair use to rip tracks from a game's encrypted files and then declare that since you bought the game you can listen to music whereever/whenever (regardless of the restrictions under which the game's author licensed the music), there's no sense beating up BW for simply stating what he's been told by people with thousands of hours more legal expertise than he has. In fact, the less you say about it on these boards, the better it is for everyone, since then it gives BW plausible deniability in the extremely unlikely circumstance that someone comes after you.

User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 776
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by xolotl » July 6th, 2010, 12:09 pm

AstralWanderer wrote:What gives with the idea of "you can only listen to this music while playing the game"?
Perhaps the terms under which BW has licensed the music?

Nowhere at basiliskgames.com does it say "free, unrestricted access to all the music in the game!" Sure, I often enjoy being able to just browse to a directory and check out datafiles that come bundled with games, but there's no reason to be incensed when a game doesn't do that. BW's doing what he has to, legally, and no amount of indignant fury is going to change that.

User avatar
SpottedShroom
Captain Magnate
Captain Magnate
Posts: 1371
Joined: June 4th, 2010, 6:18 pm

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by SpottedShroom » July 6th, 2010, 12:10 pm

AstralWanderer wrote:In addition, that packed file makes Book 2 significantly slower when entering a new area (typically a 5 second delay on a 2.4Ghz Q6600 system). Would it not at least make sense to give users the choice on whether to have the game data compressed (to save space) or not? (to improve speed).
Accessing content out of the encrypted zip is presumably slow for two reasons: decryption and decompression. Presumably BW could choose not to use compression when making the zip file, which would save some CPU time. The encryption is hard to get around, though, if you want to use a standard container format but make it not trivial for people to access the content.

Most games "solve" this problem by making up their own proprietary archive and/or file format(s). I can see how the current solution makes it easier on the developer.

User avatar
MyGameCompany
Officer [Platinum Rank]
Officer [Platinum Rank]
Posts: 512
Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 6:56 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by MyGameCompany » July 6th, 2010, 12:48 pm

xolotl wrote:
AstralWanderer wrote:What gives with the idea of "you can only listen to this music while playing the game"?
Perhaps the terms under which BW has licensed the music?
BINGO!

I also have to abide by similar licensing restrictions on royalty-free music that I purchased to use in some of my games. As independent developers on limited budgets, we can't always afford to produce brand-new original music that we own and can do anything we want with. Sometimes we have to go for the cheaper option.
Troy
Former indie game developer
Check out my Book III mods: The Mystery of Rockhammer Mine and Expedition into West Mirkland

argv
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 6:26 am

Re: ZipCrypto

Post by argv » July 6th, 2010, 1:25 pm

SpottedShroom wrote:Most games "solve" this problem by making up their own proprietary archive and/or file format(s). I can see how the current solution makes it easier on the developer.
PC games based on major, non-game-specific engines (id Tech, Unreal Engine, Gamebryo, etc) usually use a well-defined archive format, since it's much harder to make tools to work with the engine otherwise, both for game developers and for modders. Some, including id Tech 3 and later, use a plain, uncompressed ZIP, usually with a special extension like "pk3".

I don't think I've ever seen encryption used to protect game data before. The load times would be terrible if a game had to decrypt a gigabyte or two of data for every level change. Not so bad for Eschalon, but I can still imagine some people wanting to decrypt and decompress the datapak just to make load times shorter. Of course, doing so is arguably a license violation (if figuring out the key to the datapak qualifies as reverse engineering and "Software" covers the datapak as well as the executable) and/or outright illegal.
MyGameCompany wrote:I also have to abide by similar licensing restrictions on royalty-free music that I purchased to use in some of my games. As independent developers on limited budgets, we can't always afford to produce brand-new original music that we own and can do anything we want with. Sometimes we have to go for the cheaper option.
Do the suppliers of this music ask you to encrypt the music in the game's data files?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests