Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

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xolotl
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Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by xolotl » July 8th, 2010, 9:46 am

So I've been thinking about how the True Healer challenge works, in relation to killing Sparrow and all, and I've been thinking that it'd be great if there were some way to get that key off of her without having to break True Healer (and yeah, I know that there are other ways into Hammerlorne anyway). How about a Pickpocketing skill for Thief-type characters? Though of course Thieves would have perhaps the easiest time getting into Hammerlorne without Sparrow's key, anyway.

I imagine it would only work when NPCs aren't aware of you (have to sneak up from behind, etc), and it'd be pretty cool to have many other NPCs have pickpocketable loot as well. I imagine that mostly it'd just be small amounts of gold, but occasionally having other items come up would be fun too (perhaps extra keys for chests they store in their house, etc).

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » July 8th, 2010, 10:00 am

xolotl wrote:So I've been thinking about how the True Healer challenge works, in relation to killing Sparrow and all, and I've been thinking that it'd be great if there were some way to get that key off of her without having to break True Healer (and yeah, I know that there are other ways into Hammerlorne anyway). How about a Pickpocketing skill for Thief-type characters? Though of course Thieves would have perhaps the easiest time getting into Hammerlorne without Sparrow's key, anyway.

I imagine it would only work when NPCs aren't aware of you (have to sneak up from behind, etc), and it'd be pretty cool to have many other NPCs have pickpocketable loot as well. I imagine that mostly it'd just be small amounts of gold, but occasionally having other items come up would be fun too (perhaps extra keys for chests they store in their house, etc).
Like the magic amulet that lets the smiths walk through walls to get to their treasure. ;)
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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by xolotl » July 8th, 2010, 12:08 pm

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:Like the magic amulet that lets the smiths walk through walls to get to their treasure. ;)
Heh - perhaps they don't even know that those chests are there - built into the walls by the previous owners of the building or something. :)

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Rebelicious » July 9th, 2010, 8:02 pm

Recently being a victim of the, in my mind extremely poorly designed, main-quest encounter with Sparrow, I was just thinking the same thing. Pickpocketing is sortof a staple in games like this and it's almost weird to see a game without it.

I disagree with the "have to be unaware" part, however. Using Sparrow with an example, it is impossible to not have her go hostile, if you follow the main quest. At that moment, I would've liked the chance to "combat pickpocket" her and bolt out of there, to keep the storyline consistent.

It confuddles and bedazzles me that such an encounter was even designed so poorly. Following the main quest shouldn't result in lost challenges. I know that there are effective workarounds to the entire situation, but as far as the main quest goes, that's not the way to do it. The quest is in fact very clear in explaining that I should go to Sparrow and get the key from her. Just changing the mainquest into "Aquire a key for the Mines; Sparrow may have one or you may find one elsewhere" could keep the integrity of the main questline. Or just have her refuse to give the key away, making attacking her or not a concious choice.

But nooooooo.

/rant off/

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by obiwan » July 10th, 2010, 12:11 am

Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Elwro » July 10th, 2010, 4:46 am

obiwan wrote:Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?
Yes, but I was wondering: if you don't do the Sparrow quest, can you continue with the main quest and go to Picaroon's Island?

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by IJBall » July 10th, 2010, 10:01 am

obiwan wrote:Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?
There is?! What is it?!! :shock:

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » July 10th, 2010, 10:13 am

IJBall wrote:
obiwan wrote:Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?
There is?! What is it?!! :shock:
Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the guy who OWNS the mine might have a key. ;-)
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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by IJBall » July 10th, 2010, 10:17 am

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:
IJBall wrote:
obiwan wrote:Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?
There is?! What is it?!! :shock:
Well, it wouldn't surprise me if the guy who OWNS the mine might have a key. ;-)
Hmmm... kill that "miserable sow" who attacks you for no reason, or murder a bunch of innocent dwarfs who are just minding their own business?... I let you take a guess which of those two options I'm usually going to go with... :wink:

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by xolotl » July 10th, 2010, 10:20 am

IJBall wrote:Hmmm... kill that "miserable sow" who attacks you for no reason, or murder a bunch of innocent dwarfs who are just minding their own business?... I let you take a guess which of those two options I'm usually going to go with... :wink:
There's no need to kill any dwarves to get to that key...

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » July 10th, 2010, 10:21 am

xolotl wrote:
IJBall wrote:Hmmm... kill that "miserable sow" who attacks you for no reason, or murder a bunch of innocent dwarfs who are just minding their own business?... I let you take a guess which of those two options I'm usually going to go with... :wink:
There's no need to kill any dwarves to get to that key...
Exactly. Just because he has a key does not mean that he keeps it on his person at all times.
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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by IJBall » July 10th, 2010, 10:37 am

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:
xolotl wrote:There's no need to kill any dwarves to get to that key...
Exactly. Just because he has a key does not mean that he keeps it on his person at all times.
Picking the lock doesn't turn those guys hostile?! Even though you're always in at least one guard's line-of-sight?! I'm all verklempt!!!

(Yeah, I've never even tried getting through that door, for the very reason that I thought there was no way to pick that lock without the dwarfs "seeing a crime being committed"...)

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » July 10th, 2010, 10:39 am

IJBall wrote:
Kreador Freeaxe wrote:
xolotl wrote:There's no need to kill any dwarves to get to that key...
Exactly. Just because he has a key does not mean that he keeps it on his person at all times.
Picking the lock doesn't turn those guys hostile?! Even though you're always in at least one guard's line-of-sight?! I'm all verklempt!!!

(Yeah, I've never even tried getting through that door, for the very reason that I thought there was no way to pick that lock without the dwarfs "seeing a crime being committed"...)
Nobody can see you commit a crime if they can't see you.
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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by xolotl » July 10th, 2010, 10:46 am

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:Nobody can see you commit a crime if they can't see you.
And there's always ways of inducing forgetfulness on NPCs who have turned against you. :)

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Re: Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

Post by Rebelicious » July 10th, 2010, 1:03 pm

Elwro wrote:
obiwan wrote:Nobody noticed that there *is* in fact an alternative way to get a key for the mine?
Yes, but I was wondering: if you don't do the Sparrow quest, can you continue with the main quest and go to Picaroon's Island?
Yes. You just have to get a key. Any key. From anywhere.

The dwarf lord keeps a key in his bedroom.

My main gripe here isn't the kill-or-not-to-kill Sparrow and how killing someone who deliberately attacks you breaks the Healer Challenge, or how killing leagues of innocent dwarven miners doesn't. It is how the main quest doesn't even really offer an option or even an optional interpretation of the quest - and how following that quest will by default result in a lost challenge.

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