IJB's Random Book II Gameplay & Gameplay Element Thoughts

[IJBall]

So, here is a random of collection of thoughts, observations, and suggestions, composed during my most recent playthrough of Book II (playing as a "Monk" focusing on Unarmed Combat):

• Has anyone successfully played through Book II using Thrown Weapons as their exclusive combat skill?! If so, I'd love to hear how that went - I've been too scared to play a 'Thrown Weapons specialist' (or even to use Thrown Weapons as my secondary weapons skill!) because I fear there aren't enough Thrown Weapons available in the game, and their "use-once-and-never-recover" nature would make it too expensive to play as a 'Thrown Weapons specialist'.
• It's too bad that you could never do anything with Wendy's bloody boots: it's an open-plot point that Wendy likely killed her brother Ruel, and yet our character never gets to do anything about it.
• I wish the townhall building in Eastwillow was designed differently: there's basically no "stealthy/sneaky" way (at least, for non-magick users) to look at (or steal!) the Constable's ledger without Brelinda seeing you, forcing you to "commit a crime" (and likely be forced to kill her as a consequence!) just to get at look at the ledger. It would have been better if there was some corner that Brelinda would sometimes disappear around, to give you a chance to view or purloin the ledger out of Brelinda's line-of-sight.
• And I know I always complain about this, but I really do wish that Jarvik at The Wayfarer's Jolly in Eastwillow was always stocked with torches in his inventory. In fact, I generally wish torches were a "permanently stocked" item with a number of innkeeper merchants. (Were 'permanently stocked' items eliminated in Book II?!...)
• Related: If a town guard sees you take a torch from the side of a town building, shouldn't that be considered a "crime"?
• There are two bodies down in the Convent's Well (presumably killed by Julian) - who were they?!
• Everdale is probably underpopulated (by one) - it would have been good if there had been one non-merchant character in that town.
• Outlanders: Where are they coming from?! This is a question that's been bugging me for a while - is there someplace not shown on the Eschalon World Map that the Outlanders are coming from?! If not, which region of Eschalon do they originate from?! Hmmm...
• It's "Farrock Caves, Level 1" - was there originally supposed to be a "Farrock Caves, Level 2" aside from Fathamurk (e.g. was there originally going to be another Farrock Caves level below the hidden SE corner of Farrock Caves, Level 1?...).
• Camping 'spawns' are not allowed on the Port Kuudad map, even outside the city gates! - It would be neat if BW could figure out a way to allow for camping spawns in only certain parts (i.e. on certain grid-square coordinates) of a map like Port K's...
• Is anyone else annoyed by the layout of the upper level of Lockston Hall besides me?
• I've said it before, I'll say it again - I hope Level 2 of Port Kuudad is further developed in a later Book II expansion. (Also, is it my imagination, or is the building that houses Chancellor Pylot rather on the small side?!...)
• I know I've mentioned this before, but: Was there a storyline originally planned for The Scholar's Inn in Port K? If not, I can't figure out why the place is in the game, as it seems to serve no purpose.
• Innkeepers are kind of like the 'pawn shop' dealers of the Eschalon world - as such, they should always be willing to buy non-magical rings - ditto the 'general store' merchant, Marisa, in Port K. And, yet, a number of them in Book II won't buy rings! The same should go for any kind of Book - Innkeepers (etc.) should be willing to buy those, but a number of them in Book II won't buy (Skill) Books. OTOH, I'm not sure 'Magicks' dealers should traffic in non-magical rings at all.
• In general, all of the Inns/Pubs/Clubs, for both Books I & II needed to be populated by some random "regulars" (a la the townspeople in Port K). Spiderweb's games seem pretty good about this; Eschalon, not so much - I think Garrett (Book I) is the only character who's found just hanging out in an Inn/etc. in either Book I or Book II: all the other Inns are empty except for the Innkeeper. They need some "bodies" in them, even if they just offer generic greetings in the Narrative textbook like Guards, the townspeople in Port K, or the Mages of Shadowmirk and Lorewitch.
• There's a locked cell down in the Thieves' Arcadia that cannot be accessed. Now, as far as I can tell, there's nothing in it. But, still - why is it there, if it can't even be entered?!
• 'Max-out' your training with Zeblin and, like all the other Skill Trainers, he says, "You are already more skilled than me. I cannot train you anymore." Shouldn't someone one like Zeblin say, "You are already as skilled as me..." instead?!
• "...Exquisite tail feathers, probably from a Barrean Roc"?! Is this one of the beasties we get to look forward to in Book III?!
• You know what would be a nice touch? If, upon completion of the Port K warehouse quest, a couple of new random Port K "citizens" would appear inside the Port K warehouse (and maybe a few more in the actual Port area), as "workers".
• I do wish it weren't so difficult to go due West from the middle of The Forsaken Coast map...
• What is the deal with the very old cemetery just south of Cape Sorrow?! (Disappointing that all of the headstone text was "washed away" from that set so you can't get any background on it…)
• (I've talked about this before, but...) Why is there that (sewer?) area of Hammerlorne, Level 1 that you can't even get to? Was it originally meant to be part of the game, but was for some reason cut later?
• Playing Unarmed Combat going for "True Warrior" Challenge sucks - there's no way to kill the Dwarven poltergeists, and there appears to be no way to complete The Prospector challenge (all by yourself). Basically, Book II desperately needs some Unarmed Combat bonus gloves.
• Hammerlorne Thought #1: There should be some consequence for going back through Hammerlorne more than once. I can see how, the first time through, you're able to slip through mostly unharrassed, due to the element of 'surprise'. But if you have to go through Hammerlorne more than once, security should be beefed up, and you should have to fight off more Dwarves (and beasties) the second (etc.) time through Hammerlorne. (Is it possible to add pre-programmed 'spawns' here?...)
• Hammerlorne Thought #2: I believe this has been mentioned before (it might have been Jedi_Learner...), but once the 'War Horn' has been sounded in Hammerlorne, Durnore should be made unavailable to the player. At the least, the merchants should start refusing to patronize you (or, presumably, any "outsiders"); at worst, the entire town should become hostile, and attack you on sight.
• The portrait image/avatar for Charma of Lorewitch is too young - it should probably be a woman who looks like she's in her 50s or 60s, not a total 'hottie' in her 30s(!).
• I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but the Bells are "Category: Miscellaneous" - shouldn't they be "Category: Special"?
• Westwillow has incredible camp spawns! I was just camping there, and when I'd get an encounter, I think I'd end up having to face up to about 8 Cursed Undead (or whatever they are)!
• The Plasma Wand is the only item in either Book I or Book II that's in the category of "Wand", IIRC. Why are there no other (magical) "wands" in world of Eschalon? (See, for example: Spiderweb's games.)
• I'm not sure I ever noticed this before (or maybe I just forgot), but the Yoma River Headwater isn't the only place left where you still receive the "There is nothing more in this direction. Turn back- your fate lies elsewhere." prompt - you also receive one at the western edge of the Eastern Sylphwood Forest map. If the Eschalon World Map is to be believed, this would seem to be another potential "backdoor" in to the Barrea Province.
• Maybe my favorite map in Book I is Central Tangletree Forest as there's lots of little trails off in to the forest that one can explore (including even finding the ruined cabin!). Something like this is definitely missing from the Eastern Sylphwood Forest map (and/or possibly also the Northern Harpoon Bay map).
• Shouldn't Edon be bigger than it is?!
• Picaroon is another place that needs a few random (non-hostile) pirates roaming around. And it would have been cool if that little "hidden" area on the east side of Picaroon actually had some kind of payoff (like an entrance to a small dungeon, or something).
• Also, Picaroon is one of those maps which doesn't match the Eschalon World Map - there should be another peninsula that reaches up towards Picaroon from the (south)west. I don't really think the peninsula to the east of Picaroon Island matches the World Map either.
• By the same token, based on the Eschalon World Map, the "land" in the Ghar-gha River and Talushorn maps doesn't go far enough east (the land should go almost all the way to the eastern edge of these two maps).
• The Hallows of Abigor seem like a waste of a map - lots of unused space there that could have housed... something - a small dungeon, perhaps.
• Shina, The Dying Orakur, says The One has "...taken control of the minds of countless lesser creatures - ...the countless creatures that crawl and fly, and the ancient beasts of the underworld." That seems, to me, to be an unmistakable reference to... dragons!!
• There's another locked cell on Talushorn, Level 3 that cannot be accessed. Now, as far as I can tell, there's nothing in it. But, still - why is it there, if it can't even be entered either?!
• I still resent Gen. Ghorr's "treasure chests" on the top Level of Talushorn - it's not like you can get cash for any of that loot!! (though, you could, I suppose, put that loot towards the "Wealthy Lord" challenge...)
• SPOILERS!! The one thing that I really wish happened at the end of Book II that didn't happen was your character grabbing the Crux of Ages after Korren dropped it. Indeed - I would rather have gone into Book III holding just the Crux of Ages rather than the Crux of Fire!
• And, finally - are "Meat Scraps" like 'Cold Cuts'?!

[Kreador Freeaxe]

So, here is a random of collection of thoughts, observations, and suggestions, composed during my most recent playthrough of Book II (playing as a "Monk" focusing on Unarmed Combat):
I wish the townhall building in Eastwillow was designed differently: there's basically no "stealthy/sneaky" way (at least, for non-magick users) to look at (or steal!) the Constable's ledger without Brelinda seeing you, forcing you to "commit a crime" (and likely be forced to kill her as a consequence!) just to get at look at the ledger. It would have been better if there was some corner that Brelinda would sometimes disappear around, to give you a chance to view or purloin the ledger out of Brelinda's line-of-sight.

Actually, with the help of the two available powder kegs in town, there is a place you can coax Brelinda into where she can't see any of your activities and therefor you don't get caught stealing (as long as you remember to close the door so the guard also doesn't see you--a mistake I made once).

[Randomizer]

[*] I wish the townhall building in Eastwillow was designed differently: there's basically no "stealthy/sneaky" way (at least, for non-magick users) to look at (or steal!) the Constable's ledger without Brelinda seeing you, forcing you to "commit a crime" (and likely be forced to kill her as a consequence!) just to get at look at the ledger. It would have been better if there was some corner that Brelinda would sometimes disappear around, to give you a chance to view or purloin the ledger out of Brelinda's line-of-sight.

If you remove almost all the torches and wait until a dark and stormy night, then with Hide in Shadows you can sneak in to the room with the ledger, but it's not easy. I did it in my first game, but I've had trouble since then. I suppose you could buy an invisibility potion to do it, but that's a waste of one when there are better things for it.

[*] It's "Farrock Caves, Level 1" - was there originally supposed to be a "Farrock Caves, Level 2" aside from Fathamurk (e.g. was there originally going to be another Farrock Caves level below the hidden SE corner of Farrock Caves, Level 1?...).

Farrock Caves, Level 2 was the original name for Fathamurk.

[*] Camping 'spawns' are not allowed on the Port Kuudad map, even outside the city gates! - It would be neat if BW could figure out a way to allow for camping spawns in only certain parts (i.e. on certain grid-square coordinates) of a map like Port K's...

I used to get spawn on the north side of Port Kuudad, but they stopped in later versions.

[*] Playing Unarmed Combat going for "True Warrior" Challenge sucks - there's no way to kill the Dwarven poltergeists, and there appears to be no way to complete The Prospector challenge (all by yourself). Basically, Book II desperately needs some Unarmed Combat bonus gloves.

The only way seems to be kegs of black powder if you remember to bring enough and can get them positioned right.

[*] Hammerlorne Thought #1: There should be some consequence for going back through Hammerlorne more than once. I can see how, the first time through, you're able to slip through mostly unharrassed, due to the element of 'surprise'. But if you have to go through Hammerlorne more than once, security should be beefed up, and you should have to fight off more Dwarves (and beasties) the second (etc.) time through Hammerlorne. (Is it possible to add pre-programmed 'spawns' here?...)

[*] Hammerlorne Thought #2: I believe this has been mentioned before (it might have been Jedi_Learner...), but once the 'War Horn' has been sounded in Hammerlorne, Durnore should be made unavailable to the player. At the least, the merchants should start refusing to patronize you (or, presumably, any "outsiders"); at worst, the entire town should become hostile, and attack you on sight.

These always bugged me too, but since it takes several trips to loot Hammerlorne I don't complain.

[*] I'm not sure I ever noticed this before (or maybe I just forgot), but the Yoma River Headwater isn't the only place left where you still receive the "There is nothing more in this direction. Turn back- your fate lies elsewhere." prompt - you also receive one at the western edge of the Eastern Sylphwood Forest map. If the Eschalon World Map is to be believed, this would seem to be another potential "backdoor" in to the Barrea Province.

There were more map sections in the earlier betas that got deleted. Also map borders were altered to block travel.

[Necromis]

On hammerlorne I think I have the answer to both your questions. One, if you kill off all the current inhabitants of the mines no one in town has a clue that you are the killer, secondly, the horn goes off in the mine, not the town, so again if you have killed everyone off there is no chance of help coming any time soon, though if someone were to run back to town to get help it might should have a certain set spawn time for new dwarves to arrive in the main entrance hall, or along the way in the snow between the mine and the town.

[JyriErik]

I wish the townhall building in Eastwillow was designed differently: there's basically no "stealthy/sneaky" way (at least, for non-magick users) to look at (or steal!) the Constable's ledger without Brelinda seeing you, forcing you to "commit a crime" (and likely be forced to kill her as a consequence!) just to get at look at the ledger. It would have been better if there was some corner that Brelinda would sometimes disappear around, to give you a chance to view or purloin the ledger out of Brelinda's line-of-sight.

It IS possible to sneak that peak without magic. I've done it, but it requires a LOT of patience (and night) to get to where no one can see you do it.

Jyri

[CrazyBernie]

I find that a creative, non-lethal use of explosive barrels helps when trying to "corral" Brelinda... although I suppose it breaks the immersion slightly.



Brelinda: "Excuse me, what are you doing with all of those gunpowder kegs?"

CrazyBernie: "Sorry ma'am. I'm with the Eastwillow Building Code Management, and I'm doing floor stability testing using these barrels as weights."

Brelinda: "Oh, I see. Carry on then. Wait... how exactly did you fit all of those in your pack?

CrazyBernie: "Trade secret ma'am. I'm not at liberty to discuss such details.

Brelinda: "Well that's perfectly understandable. I'll just go on about my business and try not to get in your way."

CrazyBernie: "I'd appreciate that. And don't be alarmed if you lose sight of me momentarily. It's all part of the process..."

[IJBall]

I wish the townhall building in Eastwillow was designed differently: there's basically no "stealthy/sneaky" way (at least, for non-magick users) to look at (or steal!) the Constable's ledger without Brelinda seeing you, forcing you to "commit a crime" (and likely be forced to kill her as a consequence!) just to get at look at the ledger. It would have been better if there was some corner that Brelinda would sometimes disappear around, to give you a chance to view or purloin the ledger out of Brelinda's line-of-sight.

It IS possible to sneak that peak without magic. I've done it, but it requires a LOT of patience (and night) to get to where no one can see you do it.
Jyri

Heh!
It's funny, but when I posted my list here, I didn't expect this particular entry to generate this much "heat"!

Anyway, I don't think my original point was that it "wasn't possible" to get Belinda out of the way (at least, that isn't what I intended to mean!) - several people here have illuminated ways of doing it. (Though, as CB suggested, I do find that the "barrel prison" idea is the kind of thing that would take me out of the "realism" of the game-play...)

I think it's more my point that, this early in the game-play, it should have been made easier to get Brelinda "out of the way" so that the Player could sneak a peak at the ledger. That's why it would have been better if that building had been designed a little differently.

I think I would have had no objection to 'ramping up the difficulty' and making it a challenge in getting someone like Brelinda "out of the way" (in a "non-crime, non-lethal" manner) had it been a required action later on in the game-play.

But it's just my opinion/$0.02 on this one...

[Dragonlady]

I find that a creative, non-lethal use of explosive barrels helps when trying to "corral" Brelinda... although I suppose it breaks the immersion slightly.



Brelinda: "Excuse me, what are you doing with all of those gunpowder kegs?"

CrazyBernie: "Sorry ma'am. I'm with the Eastwillow Building Code Management, and I'm doing floor stability testing using these barrels as weights."

Brelinda: "Oh, I see. Carry on then. Wait... how exactly did you fit all of those in your pack?

CrazyBernie: "Trade secret ma'am. I'm not at liberty to discuss such details.

Brelinda: "Well that's perfectly understandable. I'll just go on about my business and try not to get in your way."

CrazyBernie: "I'd appreciate that. And don't be alarmed if you lose sight of me momentarily. It's all part of the process..."

Good one!
I agree, with a bit of planning - taking all the torches inside and just outside the door, shutting the door and waiting in the dark, yu can get Brelinda to move to the north end of the room and she can't see you pull the switch or go inside to take a look at what's inside. But it takes time and at the beginning of the game I don't have the patience usually. I come back later with a 'charm' potion and throw the 'nice perfume' on the lady. "Just a free sample ma'm, enjoy. I'll be going now."....

[KillingMoon]

It was much easier to simply sneak past Constable Gemmen and pinch the sword from the wall.
Also you knew it's this sword you needed, the game didn't give any clue about an incriminating letter or its whereabouts, so for your character to start dragging barrels around to be able to get a look in some random cupboard...
Perhaps it would have been better if some villager in the local inn had given a hint, to make it more logical for your character to investigate at Brelinda's.

[Lord_P]

[*] Shouldn't Edon be bigger than it is?!

Agreed. Being an important port-town and all.