Arthur, level 1 melee.

[BasiliskWrangler]

A couple of caveats:

1. First, is there any chance you can implement this system such that the kind of reagents you get by Foraging can be restricted by map (type), or are "map-specific". Again, one of my main concerns has always been that you could Forage for reagents in places that you shouldn't be able to (e.g. esp. dungeons), or as Kreedor pointed out that you could get a reagent like Ambergris on a "non-beachfront" map.
2. My other main concern has always been with Foraging as a "money generator" (and this being somewhat "game breaking")... But maybe there's no way to avoid that? Still, it would be good if that aspect (the money generating-part) of Foraging could be limited somehow.

And I agree with Randomizer on the Create Food/Draw Water spells, but my suggestion for dealing with that was put into the Book III Wishlist long-ago...

1) Yes- I think that we could make some reagents exclusive to dungeons/caves, and others exclusive to outdoors, perhaps even based on the ground tiles you walk on- so sand, grassland, woodlands, and swamp would each produce different reagents depending on the amount of time you spend walking across them.

2) I think this new system would go a long way towards fixing the exploitation of this skill as a money generator. Namely, it's going to take more real-time gameplay (walking) to acquire the same amount of reagents that a few rapid camping sessions would generate in Book II. In fact, it really corrects the over-camping issue because without any foraging happening during camping, players who do this will begin starving to death fairly quickly.

And yes, I will be looking at Create Food/Draw Water balance issues later.

[Lord_P]

Word of God makes his first move.

For Book III, we are playing around with the idea of foraging working only while moving- as you travel, you forage from the bushes and plants you find along the way. When you camp, you are resting, not out foraging through the brush. Even if you were, you'd only find a limited amount of food and reagents in the immediate vicinity of your campsite.

/agree

[Firall]

Would frequent camping + high Foraging skill be a significant exploit for this kind of character?

Yes. Pretty sure over the course of that play through I generated over 100k gold via foraging.

For Book III, we are playing around with the idea of foraging working only while moving- as you travel, you forage from the bushes and plants you find along the way. When you camp, you are resting, not out foraging through the brush. Even if you were, you'd only find a limited amount of food and reagents in the immediate vicinity of your campsite.
Thoughts?

I like this idea, also the specific areas/tiles producing mats idea. Makes more sense than just camping in the NE corner kuudad.

On money generation, though, it shouldn't be a major concern. This is the only build I can think of where it's required to have more money than you'll likely find. I do have some suggestions for other systems/skills and considered making another thread for them. Figured it's probably a bit late for that, so I opted to wait.

[Randomizer]

By making foraging tile specific it makes traveling on along the roads less useful and encourages mapping the whole place.

[BasiliskWrangler]

FYI: Create Food to be replace with Malachi's Gruel in Book III. Instead of delicious, valuable food, you receive a grey paste that is monetarily worthless, and offers only tiny increases in your hunger bar. Casting higher makes more of it, and better quality (more filling) but still unsellable.

[Painted Lady]

Instead of delicious, valuable food, you receive a grey paste that is monetarily worthless, and offers only tiny increases in your hunger bar.

Wow, that sounds totally delicious. Or maybe not? Suddenly spider legs are looking better.

[Lord_P]

Word of God keeps rolling. Another good one!

[IJBall]

FYI: Create Food to be replace[d] with Malachi's Gruel in Book III. Instead of delicious, valuable food, you receive a grey paste that is monetarily worthless, and offers only tiny increases in your hunger bar. Casting higher makes more of it, and better quality (more filling) but still unsellable.

Let me just say that I wholly approve of this change.

("...a grey paste that is monetarily worthless...", and presumably completely tasteless, too! )

And I really hope Level 1 in this spell moves the "Hunger" bar barely at all - it should almost work that if you only have Level 1 in this spell, and are a low MP/low PER character, it might still be possible to starve in certain circumstances!...

[Dragonlady]

Instead of delicious, valuable food, you receive a grey paste that is monetarily worthless, and offers only tiny increases in your hunger bar.

Wow, that sounds totally delicious. Or maybe not? Suddenly spider legs are looking better.

I agree! Even ant soup would be better!


(harking back to my teen years on ant soup. Step-mother making home made soup and asked the youngest one to go pick some chard from the garden. Little sister came back in and chopped it up and dumped it into the broth. Forgot to wash it first!! Hence floating ants in the soup. We had to eat it anyway. They gave a sharp, acidic peppery taste in case your wondering. )

[Randomizer]

Reminds me of The Simpsons episode where Lisa finds out that the school cook is supplementing the food with insects.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Hence floating ants in the soup. We had to eat it anyway. They gave a sharp, acidic peppery taste in case your wondering.

Yes. It's a lovely, sharp, peppery addition when eating fresh figs off the tree sometimes, too. A little extra protein and some spice.

[IJBall]

Thoughts?

I like your ideas. People can still "grind" for alchemy ingredients but it will require more effort on their part. It will also encourage people to return to places they would usually only visit once or twice.

That's only a "good" thing, IMO, if it's paired with (some) monster 'respawning' on some map-areas. Otherwise, you'll just be "revisiting" now-empty map-areas for Alchemy 'grinding' purposes, which isn't very interesting...

[Necromis]

Honestly I don't see it fixing the exploit. I mean if someone really wants to exploit the foraging by moving, nothing stops them from pointing their guy towards a tree, and having the move button pressed making them *walk*, or simply just strolling around a completed map tile endlessly. then camp, then repeat. In fact there is no risk of attackers with this change, were as with camping you get the random encounters.

Additionally I don't see it as logical. I have camped my whole life. you don't forage when you are walking going somewhere, you are watching the terrain, trying not to trip, or avoiding dangers. When you camp you go out around your camp and forage for items, such as food and water. So logic is not on the side of having you forage as you move, but when you camp.

As said, if some one wants to abuse it they can. Just like abuse of Mercantile. Those of us that don't abuse it won't care either way it is worked out.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Hello.

Been lurking a bit, but haven't posted yet.

Just recently found these games, played through Book I, and am starting Book II now.

First off, I really enjoy them, and I'm quite glad to see someone is still making an oldschool rpg (with a linux version no less). It seems this genre is nearly extinct

As to foraging and create food, I'm not so sure it's broken- I had some trouble the first couple attempts, with my characters dying of starvation and getting all there equipment destroyed (I think these are interesting, and possibly important aspects to increase the 'realism' of games, but they aren't always intuitive, and can be troublesome for some builds/playstyles).
I think this is probably the closest we can approach to what the character's life is described as (fishing, selling the excess in town).

As to the foraging while traveling, I think that's currently covered with the reduced rate of hunger/thirst bar depletion. And I agree that it's easier to gather stuff while actually camped. Although, it does seem a bit... odd? that the same character can forage for reagents, patch up gear, and get a nap simultaneously. I don't know what sort of coding/programming challenges it would pose, but I think for added realism, to put some sort of camping apportionment window or something, where you dedicate what portion (or hours, whatever) of your rest you put towards repairing gear, foraging, or resting. So, like, you can still sit around camp and repair gear (and get normal mp/hp regen), or you can go foraging nearby (and get normal mp/hp regen), or you can get some rest, and get accelerated mp/hp regen, but you can't really do all 3 at once (but you could do, say, 2 hours foraging, 2 hours gear repair, and a 2 hour nap, etc.)

As to the Creat food spell, I understand wanting to limit to character sustenance only, and not allowing it to be used to generate revenue. Possibly instead of having it create an unsellable item, have it just add a certain amount to the hunger bar per level casting? (same could be done with draw water, though I'm not sure there is any exploits associated with that spell).

Again, great game, I'm glad you've made them, and I'm looking forward to Book III (once it's released, and I've completed Book II)

Welcome, Lochaber. Glad you decloaked.

I kind of like the idea of "apportioning" camping time, but it might require a good bit more programming to add that. However it's done, a dedicated person can find a way to abuse the system, so I don't worry about it too much.

[Lord_P]

I kind of like the idea of "apportioning" camping time, but it might require a good bit more programming to add that. However it's done, a dedicated person can find a way to abuse the system, so I don't worry about it too much.

How about a menu that pops up every time you camp? It could be like:

You set camp
1. Rest (heals HP and MP faster)
2. Forage (forages for reagents, regen is slower)
3. Repair (repairs equipment, regen is slower)
4. Break camp

After you press esc to cancel any action:

You stop resting/foraging/repairing your equipment.
(If foraged:) You have found [insert reagents and/or food here]
(If repaired:) You have repaired [insert equipment here] into [insert quality here] quality.
1. Rest
2. Forage
3. Repair
4. Break camp

Also the small stops inbetween actions would be like "guarding" the camp, meaning that the ever-increasing chance for a random encounter would diminish.