What type of engine for Book II

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What type fo engine for Book II

Option #1
136
66%
Option #2
43
21%
Option #3
26
13%
 
Total votes: 205

zedth
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Option one

Post by zedth » December 9th, 2007, 8:55 pm

I went with option one because it's obvious. I agree with Nomander and tungprc. You've made beautiful isometric game and are on top of rare genre now. Stick on it.

By the way, here are interesting words from Fallout guy:
Personally, I believe it is just part of a cycle. One day in the future, some small team, probably an indie developer, will turn out some type of classic RPG that gets everyone's attention. There will be some technology or new innovation that will make it oh so cool and CRPGs will pop back onto the radar and everyone will start making them again. Game development, like many other things, runs in cycles. We just have to wait for it.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/i ... morpg2.php

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chamr
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Post by chamr » December 10th, 2007, 3:56 pm

Like many, I voted one. I'd like to see you get one more success under your belt before tinkering with the formula, since that means not just time but risk as well (e.g. bugginess, design flaws, loss of fan-base, etc.). Go for the big change with Book III. Hopefully by then you'll have the financial resources to reduce the risk significantly.

gebba
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Post by gebba » December 11th, 2007, 3:54 am

If you make a new engine for every new game you will go out of business soon. Cheat a bit from spiderweb :lol:
use the book 1 engine, improve it, spend your time to make content for the next game. This is better for us too as we people wont wait longtime for the next game. Anyway, you can decide to change game engine for book 3 by then.

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Post by Noceur » December 12th, 2007, 5:30 am

Voted 1 (though it'd be really interesting to play a new game like Eye of the beholder and wizardry 8).

Option 1 just makes the most sense. You've got an engine, now you can concentrate more on making quests and story. This way you can also
a) Pump out the sequels much faster, or...
b) Work for a long time on the sequels but make them really packed with content and huge.

If you had planned for party-based gameplay in Book 2 and 3, you really ought to have made the engine expandable in this direction.

Anyway, updating the current engine is probably the best way to go... fit in new features and stuff.

Either that or you take your time and make an engine that supports party-based gameplay. It'll take longer for book II, but then you've got a working party-based engine for Book III and any future games. Actually, perhaps that would be better, if your current engine is restrictive.

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Post by syrio » December 17th, 2007, 9:38 am

In my opinion you would really need to stir things up if you want the game to be worthy of the "book TWO" title, because beating the game once, and experimenting with a lot with different character builds, I had to realize that the game in its current form really lacks depth and polish in the gameplay and ruleset department.
I voted "party based" in both polls, but I think in your minds you have an overcomplicated image of a party based game, with individual character control, party AI with your team members following you around, different movement speeds, pathfinding, etc., and you're always thinking in terms of realism instead of gameplay and fun.
Although I know nothing about programming and game development, I think there are some simpler solutions for party based gameplay, you just have to look in another direction. I know that most of you "old-schoolers" wouldn't even poke a japanese rpg with a stick, in a hazmat suit, but you don't have to like big eyed anime cuties and spiky haired 14 year old boy protagonists to appreciate the gameplay mechanics and technical solutions applied in oldschool, tile-based jrpg's. I've got most of these ideas from such jrpg's.
My first suggestion would be to have the whole party take up only 1 tile, making only the leader character, or the currently selected character visible. I think it would require no greater suspension of disbelief than imagining a party of 8 taking up a 1 tile space in a Wizardry game, and watching the game with the eyes of a single person in fps mode while there's actually 8 of you. This way the game could be played exactly like Book 1, you controlling 1 character on the screen (which is actually the whole party) in isometric view. This way you could retain, amongst other things, the tile based puzzles, and you don't have to worry about characters getting stuck on the other side of a door, or leaving them behind when a scripted sequence would start, etc. You would be able to cycle through your characters, making the mage the leader if you need high Lore skill to read some ancient text, selecting the Thief with the highest lockpicking skill when you want to open a lock, selecting the fighter with the highest strenght when you want to bash something, or move something heavy out of the way. But I'm getting lost in the details now. :)
But this way, combat mode should be separated from "peace" mode. The game already uses some nice "line of sight" system to determine if the monster can see you, but this time, instead of simply aggroing the monster, it would initiate combat mode (much like in the Fallout games), where you would be able to "deploy" your whole party in a square of 3x3 or 4x4 around the leader character, and then the battle would begin, making all of them visible and they could be controlled individually in a turn-based fashion. It does not necessarily have to be action-point based, no need to overcomplicate stuff.
There are a few other details I could add, but this is getting ridiculously long already, so I shut up. :wink: I just wanted to mention a few alternatives how to keep the game simple, while adding some party-based depth to it. I wonder what you guys think about it. :wink:

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alpha
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Post by alpha » December 17th, 2007, 8:51 pm

Yay for this:
the whole party take up only 1 tile
and nay for this:
combat mode should be separated from "peace" mode
See Exile 3 for details :)
Incinerator Fuel = Pure Ownage xD
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confused1
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Post by confused1 » December 24th, 2007, 10:14 am

I haven't voted yet because I am thinking a fourth option should be available. Where you have a party but you switch between the party members (note: this take up one round as to prevent a certain character from dying).

Edit: just noticed syrio's post. Oops, that's what I get for skimming over that big block of text. Big blocks of text scare me.

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Post by bkrueger » January 2nd, 2008, 10:28 am

The style I liked most was the semi-turn-based style of the infinity engine. So I would love isometric view with party and infinity-engine-like-turn-based fight.

However, since story and setting is much more important for me, I do not vote for any specific engine.

iKlim
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Post by iKlim » January 6th, 2008, 10:12 pm

In solo game you and your hero a single whole. You personify it with yourselves. In party play, of all this, it is washed away.

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Post by SnorriHT » January 10th, 2008, 6:46 am

Please keep it solo, and 30-40 hours game play. The story line, the combats, the puzzles, the traps, the tactics, the loot make it fun! I'd be happy with the same engine but with a few more graphics options and tweaking of skills. I'm happy to continue to play just humans, but I suspect that others are waiting in anticipation for that Dwarven Warrior or Elven Archer :)

ultimasephrioth
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Post by ultimasephrioth » January 10th, 2008, 7:12 am

Would it be possible to use the GemRB Engine? It's an OpenSource InfinityEngine Clone. I think its simpler to use this existing engine and modify it to the needs of EB than creating a whole new one in Option #3.

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Legendary_Gamer
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Keep THIS GAME ENGINE

Post by Legendary_Gamer » January 18th, 2008, 2:38 am

Anyone who voted for these guys to SCRAP their game engine, which took God only knows how many years + months + days + hours to develop... And then to go some other direction... Well, quite frankly, you should be shot. Because if they go any other way, you'll NEVER see book two. Or at least not for another 3+ years.

Stick with this engine, I like it. It works. Plug in a couple more features, add some more eye candy, add some more sounds, DONE.

I would love to see Module support. You could keep releasing expansions or tweaks, and effectively "sell" Roleplaying modules for the game.

I'm not here to start a flame war. I have noticed people posing that the game lacked depth... Well, hell, what happened to something called an IMAGINATION we all once had. I remember playing the "golden oldies" from SSI, both Isometric and like Eye of the Beholder (what is that a FPS/Scroller?). If you didn't grow up with those games, then you have no right to say it lacks in depth. The game has EXCELLENT depth. Just take a look at all the things that other games DON'T have. Like a map where you can go anywhere anytime. Like a HUMONGOUS map as well. Intuitive, and simple skill based leveling, combined with the classic EXP schema. You can be anybody in the game, no matter who you START out as. The story is cool. I would never have thought it up all by myself (would anyone? think of it all?).

Bottom line, these guys did a great job. Making a turn based game, that I have been looking for (for forever). Everything is Real time, and something is really lost in Roleplaying when you do that. It's NOT Roleplaying anymore... All it is is a Button Mashing Frenzy.

This game is the greatest tribute to the legends of SSI's and many other publishers roleplaying games. I loved those old obscure games, some were main stream others not. Those games were HARD, much harder than any button mashing game you can find today... because they made you think.

Awesome job on this game. I bought the download, now I have to buy a couple CD's to pass out to my buddies. I'm 34, so everyone I have showed the game to wants a copy. They all remember this kind of game , save for the fact that Eschalon is WAY better.
"It matters not how straight the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -William Earnest Henley's Invictus

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Jude
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Re: Keep THIS GAME ENGINE

Post by Jude » January 18th, 2008, 9:07 am

Legendary_Gamer wrote:...

Stick with this engine, I like it. It works. Plug in a couple more features, add some more eye candy, add some more sounds, DONE.

I would love to see Module support. You could keep releasing expansions or tweaks, and effectively "sell" Roleplaying modules for the game.
I agree totally! But keep the rquired specs as low as you can, because many people who bought Book I are actually playing on machines slightly below the given req specs, and any higher would exclude them from Book II. Maybe even add an option for lowering system strain.
Legendary_Gamer wrote:...

Bottom line, these guys did a great job. Making a turn based game, that I have been looking for (for forever). Everything is Real time, and something is really lost in Roleplaying when you do that. It's NOT Roleplaying anymore... All it is is a Button Mashing Frenzy.

This game is the greatest tribute to the legends of SSI's and many other publishers roleplaying games. I loved those old obscure games, some were main stream others not. Those games were HARD, much harder than any button mashing game you can find today... because they made you think.
I concur wholeheartedly!

Jude
Jude's Wondrous Universe
http://www.icubed.com/~judelk

Champeene
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Post by Champeene » January 19th, 2008, 4:33 pm

Book I is the Best RPG out there. As many have said.

The few tweaks I would make that others may have said or not...

1. Multiplayer changes the battle aspect of the game too much and is too complex to explain in this forum in order to keep the same feel and I have no idea about engines and the like.

2. Find/harvest regeants and food from the land. If you didn't plant it in your Home/village (that you started with all the loot you got from book I), you wouldn't dare eat it from a random tree (or would you).

3. If you don't want to use magic why have any mana points (fighter,Theif) You should be able to use those energies somewhere else.

4. Love the idea of modules. The current world still has grates and bushes that can be explored so the world doesn't have to be completely revamped. Speaking of which...


IF THERE IS GOING TO BE A PATCH FOR SOUTH CRAK AND LIGHTHOUSE BOATING I WANT IN. LET ME KNOW WHERE TO SIGN UP.

I amy have more later

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Post by thurauh1 » January 21st, 2008, 1:24 pm

I have been pondering this question for a few days now. And I ended up voting that you should definetelyt keep the (old) engine that you used for Book 1 when you start Book 2.

The reasons being 1) you know the engine 2) you can therefore easily uopgrade the engine resolution wise and 3) book 1 as about the story of one individual. To me, it wouldn't make much sense to suddenly change that and go partybased in Book II which is a part of the Eschalon series of games.

If you want to make partybased game, please do so. As others have suggest you could make a different story etc. altogether that involved having a party, maybe even set in a different part of the game's world than the part in which Eschalon takes place. That would be really cool :)

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