Bar None

[Emelio Lizardo]

I've just acquired my first gold brick, from the dwarf king.

Ostensibly it weighs 10lbs. It is however valued at 500 gold pieces (gps).

Gold pieces however weigh nothing.

Theoretically the brick should have an infinite value.

Alternatively if we would weigh gps at 0.001 to the lb (to give some rational to their apparent weightlessness) it should be valued at 10k gps.

Is anyone embarrassed by this?

[Morgan Terror]

Nope. Not in the slightest. I find it far more silly that armor is way too heavy. But i heard they fixed that.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Perhaps it's actually a magical credit line, a gold card?

[Vroqren]

A U.S. dollar costs 5.4 cents to produce, yet a dollar, weighing the same amount is worth 18.5X that much.
On the other hand, gold pieces are each worth 1 gold, while the gold bar, weighing infinitely times as much, is not worth infinitely times as many coins. It's worth 500X the value of 1 coin.
There's really no way to fix this, so I don't know what your point is.
If the coins are given weight (no matter how minuscule), it will make the merchant build impossible.
If the gold bar is given infinite value, they would not be in the game, and we would not be having this discussion (Yes, that's what I see this as, not an argument. I am willing to see your point of view, and want to add my opinion).

Sometimes, developers have to do things that make the game playable, not necessarily realistic.
So, [not hostile]where were you going with this discussion[/not hostile]

Source: http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12771.htm

[SpottedShroom]

Eschalon isn't on the gold standard. "Gold coins" are fiat currency guaranteed by the Orakur and are really just gold-colored pieces of paper.

[Vroqren]

Okay, that's another explanation I suppose.

[Emelio Lizardo]

How would giving gold coins weight make the merchant impossible?

If the value of the gold brick is accurate, then gold coins should weigh 0.02 lbs.

That being the case, dried meat at 15gps/0.2lbs is worth more than gold.

Just because it's a game doesn't mean that things should be nonsensical. The more arbitrary things are the less believable they become, and the less they are worth caring about. When a story or movie or game makes you stop caring about what's happening it's working towards its own demise.

You should always be (at least) a level of 'reality' above your readers/players. That's why the Tolkien stories are so successful generations after they were written.

Over the long term, details matter.

[Morgan Terror]

I really don't look into a game's details that much, ever. Gold bars are just coins with a little extra weight attached, which can be turned into a more convenient form at certain NPC's. That's all there is to it.

[Emelio Lizardo]

That's more a note to the developers, players shouldn't need to worry about it. But it should be there in the background informing what things are reasonable to do and giving the player a feeling that there is an underlying rational to how things work.

if you can recall a movie where characters acted stupidly just to advance the plot, that's the idea. When the world acts out of character then it's just doing stupid things to advance the plot. Things then don't matter and we stop caring.

Having rules creates the conflict against limitations, which is what makes stories and games interesting.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Giving gold coins weight has always been something I've thought was a good idea. The only reason we never did this is because it just doesn't add anything to the gameplay other than another layer of character management. In Eschalon, the pile of gold in your inventory simply represents your "cash assets", while gold bars and other valuables are physical assets (similar to people who own antiques, jewelry, or artwork) which must first be sold to increase cash wealth.

Any future RPG we develop will have a more robust money system, where the physical currency has weight and it can be deposited or even invested.

[Morgan Terror]

One interesting system i recall was one where you could convert money at a 1-to-1 ratio into alternative items to cut down on weight. The game in question used gems, which were essentially a fantasy equivalent of large bills or cheques. Maybe an idea? You wouldn't have to run to your stash to fetch some extra cash of you needed it that way.

[Vroqren]

How would giving gold coins weight make the merchant impossible?
If the value of the gold brick is accurate, then gold coins should weigh 0.02 lbs.

Here's why adding weight to gold coins would make playing as a merchant impossible (At least at that weight)
On my merchant, I have 200,000+ coins. Do the math, that's 4,000 lbs. The world record for the bench press is 1076.9 lbs. Obviously you're character isn't bench pressing his backpack the whole way, but when you can walk around with 2 tons on your back, let me know. And keep in mind that at this point, coins are the only thing you're carrying. All the other items in my merchants inventory total to another 200 or so pounds.

Just because it's a game doesn't mean that things should be nonsensical.

This is true, but because it is a game, things doesn't always have to add up to 100%. As I said earlier, sometimes developers have to do things that don't make perfect sense, so that the game is playable.

[Lord_P]

In Eschalon, the pile of gold in your inventory simply represents your "cash assets",

Yes, that is what I thought as well.

In real life, there never were (I think) just one type of currency for a nation. You always have less valuable currency and more valuable currency (e.g. penny and pound, cent and dollar, cent and euro).

If you have 200.000 "gold" on you, that could mean anything.

I apologize if I made some lingual mistakes. English isn't my first language.

[Emelio Lizardo]

It just means that the character must be given opportunities to manage his cash. I mean, it's the same weight problem for all his equipment.

In old Europe the Knights Hospitaliers organized what was effectively a banking system that covered Europe from England to the Holy Lands.

Converting coins into gems is exactly what people did.

Right now in the game some things are terribly inflated and others (value of materials vs value of finished product) make no sense.

As nice as it is for my character to carry around 50k+ coins it destroys believability. Every NPC in creation should hear the jingle and come running withdraw from my walking bank.

The other thing needed is an option to leave stuff on the ground without destroying it. I shouldn't have to forage for a storage bag.

Leaving things on the ground shouldn't be so safe either, critters should be able to come by and pick up the glitter. But that means having areas that are dynamic when the player isn't there.

[Morgan Terror]

It also all sounds really impractical. Most of that is not something i'd want to have to deal with. That's the main reason why the difficulty settings exist; not all people like the hassle.

You will be able to make containers anywhere in book 3.