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Well, after reading scorpia's review and seeing she thought that their was not enough variety between the classes what do you guys think should be improved to make them unique?
I was thinking class only skills? like assasinate(or somesuch) for theives, multihit(cleave) for fighters, tracking for rangers etc...and there could be even more, maybe branching sub skills as your character levels?
Just some early thoughts anyone else?
Classes
Class only skills are a big thing to make the classes more different. Currently the only difference between the starting classes is the free skill you get...
The different classes should get a uniques abnility of skill that automatically upgrades with level. Maybe as follows:
Warrior=critical hit % higher
Mage=reduced mana cost
Rogue=increased lock pic %
Healer=increased heal effect
Ranger=increased to hit both bow and sword
The different classes should get a uniques abnility of skill that automatically upgrades with level. Maybe as follows:
Warrior=critical hit % higher
Mage=reduced mana cost
Rogue=increased lock pic %
Healer=increased heal effect
Ranger=increased to hit both bow and sword
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Randomizer
- Captain Magnate
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Maelstrom
- Steward
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I would add a lower cost to learn skills associated with your class. Armour and weapon skills for fighter only cost 2 pts to learn. Elemental, meditation, alchemy for mage; etc.
I would create a general skills class as well for skills like survival, mercantile, etc. Cost to learn general skills could be 1 or 2.
Of course these changes might require some re-balancing of the game.
I would create a general skills class as well for skills like survival, mercantile, etc. Cost to learn general skills could be 1 or 2.
Of course these changes might require some re-balancing of the game.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Best ideas Iv'e seen so far to improve sequels. Even limited differences, such as varying skill costs, HP/MP pools and regain, would add flavor and make character creation strategic.
On the extreme side: skill level caps, restrictions on some item usage.
Those last seem not to fit in with the idea of a multiclassed individual, which is best for simple player computer RPGs, in my opinion.
On the extreme side: skill level caps, restrictions on some item usage.
Those last seem not to fit in with the idea of a multiclassed individual, which is best for simple player computer RPGs, in my opinion.
krisklef
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serenetempest
- Apprentice
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I play Rolemaster 1st/2nd pen and paper, which is very skill-driven
All skills are allowed to all classes, however, different classes have different skill costs, professional skill modifiers (i.e. fighters get +3 to attack skills and hp every level, magicians get +3 to base spell casting and directed spell casting), and may be restricted to 1 skill rank per level instead of the normal 2.
Your statistics determine not only your natural aptitude with skills, but also how many points you gain per level.
This would be fairly easy to implement and actually works pretty well.
I am, however, a fan of developing skills through use as seen in many crpgs (notably Elder Scrolls, Wizardry, Wasteland/Fallout, Dungeon Master)
All skills are allowed to all classes, however, different classes have different skill costs, professional skill modifiers (i.e. fighters get +3 to attack skills and hp every level, magicians get +3 to base spell casting and directed spell casting), and may be restricted to 1 skill rank per level instead of the normal 2.
Your statistics determine not only your natural aptitude with skills, but also how many points you gain per level.
This would be fairly easy to implement and actually works pretty well.
I am, however, a fan of developing skills through use as seen in many crpgs (notably Elder Scrolls, Wizardry, Wasteland/Fallout, Dungeon Master)
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BasiliskWrangler
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Well, there's "Strict Class" role-playing where everything you do is limited by your class. That's no fun IMO. It's like saying if you are a Doctor you can never change the oil in your car because your class is Doctor, not Auto Mechanic.
We are working to give classes a more "specific" feel in Book II (such as unique bonuses, specialty attacks, or storyline-based opportunities). This will help make each class feel different, and yet not limit a character's development path.
In the simplest terms, a character's Class should be thought of as a role-playing aid; meaning, you are playing the role of your character and thus your character's class should dictate "rules" that you should try to play by; i.e. if your character is a Rogue, you should strive to play as a Rogue.
We are working to give classes a more "specific" feel in Book II (such as unique bonuses, specialty attacks, or storyline-based opportunities). This will help make each class feel different, and yet not limit a character's development path.
In the simplest terms, a character's Class should be thought of as a role-playing aid; meaning, you are playing the role of your character and thus your character's class should dictate "rules" that you should try to play by; i.e. if your character is a Rogue, you should strive to play as a Rogue.
Speaking of rogues, I think stealth is actually quite pointless. By avoiding enemies you deprive yourself of xp. Second, due to the save/load antifeature, stealth isn't valuable for scouting. On the other hand, fighting while hidden in shadow is stupidly effective, yet very boring, you keep waiting until the monster is in range to club it. What makes it even more boring is the fact that you still get the darkness penalty for fighting in darkness.
Which brings me to a point. In my opinion it would be much nicer if Hide In Shadow helped to fight in darkness without making it ridiculously powerful, as it is now. I'd say make the skill cancel darkness penalty, and make it easier for monsters to discover you. If you use hide in shadows + silence for sneaking - fine, you most likely won't be discovered. But as soon as you start attacking enemies, they should discover you pretty quickly. This way, Hide in Shadows would still allow for dirty fighting and very measurable combat advantage, cutting the tedium and feeling of cheapness. I designed my character as a bandit/brigand, hoping to rely on dirty tricks to gain an upper hand in combat. Sadly, fighting in shadows proved *too* effective, and robbed me of most of fun.
Another issue I have with rogues is that elemental magick makes a lot of rogue skills obsolete. Spells from 1 skill allow you to disarm traps, evade enemies (invisibility), open doors, fight better in darkness, and more ( I probably missed something important). My point is, to get similar functionality as a mage, but without magic, you need many more skills, and you get -2 skill point penalty for each (new skill costs 3 points). This comes for someone who finished Book1 as an atheistic rogue, initially planning to shun magic. I planned ahead - I put many points in Survival skill, thinking it would help me against poison and disease - things I'd have problem with as an atheist. That turned out to be a mistake, faster healing is barely noticable (if at all - I just kept running to a healing well) and I still got diseased all the time. I eventually gave in, and - around Blackwater - learned elemental magick.
Which brings me to a point. In my opinion it would be much nicer if Hide In Shadow helped to fight in darkness without making it ridiculously powerful, as it is now. I'd say make the skill cancel darkness penalty, and make it easier for monsters to discover you. If you use hide in shadows + silence for sneaking - fine, you most likely won't be discovered. But as soon as you start attacking enemies, they should discover you pretty quickly. This way, Hide in Shadows would still allow for dirty fighting and very measurable combat advantage, cutting the tedium and feeling of cheapness. I designed my character as a bandit/brigand, hoping to rely on dirty tricks to gain an upper hand in combat. Sadly, fighting in shadows proved *too* effective, and robbed me of most of fun.
Another issue I have with rogues is that elemental magick makes a lot of rogue skills obsolete. Spells from 1 skill allow you to disarm traps, evade enemies (invisibility), open doors, fight better in darkness, and more ( I probably missed something important). My point is, to get similar functionality as a mage, but without magic, you need many more skills, and you get -2 skill point penalty for each (new skill costs 3 points). This comes for someone who finished Book1 as an atheistic rogue, initially planning to shun magic. I planned ahead - I put many points in Survival skill, thinking it would help me against poison and disease - things I'd have problem with as an atheist. That turned out to be a mistake, faster healing is barely noticable (if at all - I just kept running to a healing well) and I still got diseased all the time. I eventually gave in, and - around Blackwater - learned elemental magick.