Obama or McCain?

[Maelstrom]

Maybe I'll write in Frank Zappa. He may be dead, but at least he probably wouldn't screw up the country worse than it already is.

I'm thinking Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck. I doubt either could do more damage than either choice we have.

[realmzmaster]

How do you despise someone you never met? I can not despise a man I have never met. I do not despise George Bush. I do not like his policies. I have never personally met the man.

Is Obama naive or are we too cynical? Obama knows where we are, maybe he is looking at where we could be?

Are we frightened by him like Nostradamus, because he is a visionary and may see something we do not? I do not know?

Both Democrat and Republican administrations have spread a lot of discontent (to put it mildly) around the world. Are we so surprised that it has now come back to haunt us?

The United States has done a lot of good in the world, but it is balanced by actions the United States has taken in supporting certain countries and dictators (the shah of Iran (Mohammad Reza Pahlavi) and General Noriega come to mind). Why did we support them? Because at the time it was in the United States best interests to do so. You have to be careful when you lie down with dogs, you may get fleas.

The actions of the past help to dictate the future. Some countries have very long memories. They may forgive, but they never forget! Some never forgive. (Iran comes to mind.)

[Necromis]

The issues I have with Obama is first of all he is a liar. Second of all he plays the race game when anyone points out a valid issue regarding statements made by himself or those he associates closely with. Thirdly he has no experience what so ever. I mean as soon as he was elected to the senate he started his presidential campaign, essentially. Additionally, he leans way to left of center for my liking. His and Clinton's ideas for this country are boarding on socialism and national healthcare. I personally don't need a second mother. Free enterprise works best in this country. I am not a republican, though I am a coservative leaning moderate. I will personally choose McCain this election. Their really is no choice in this election as far as I can see it.

These are the reasons why for me.

Iraq - as has been stated already why we are there at this point is moot. How we leave the country and when is not.

Obama - Has never been there, but is just now thinking of going over, for political reasons. He has a plan to just get us the heck out of there the heck with the consequences, but has not even taken the time to talk to the General in charge of the war for advice and gotten even the basic facts of what are going on that we don't know about. Has flip-flopped on this from his original statement 2 years ago. Then he said he know we could not leave until the country was stable.

McCain - Has visited the country multiple times even before jumping into the presidential race. Realizes that we must leave a stable country for their sake as well as ours and is willing to stay there long enough to complete this. Though not fighting a *100 year war* as some have twisted his comments. When the US has troops in a country there usually remains some faction there after for a long period of time, to assist in training and advising the local populace. We still have troops in Germany and Japan since world war II. We have them in Korea and Vietnam, but they are not at war.

Winner - McCain

Healthcare

Obama - he wants to nationalize healthcare and have our taxes increased to take care of the cost on this. The price tag on this is more each year than the cost of the Iraq war is currently costing.

McCain - does not want to nationalize healthcare.

I don't want to see our healthcare go down the tube as has happened in other countries when they nationalize the program. I see all the time the effects when our Northern neighbors come down here and pay out of pocket rather than use the free Canadian healthcare system. If any help is needed, offer tax breaks to those with lower income in the amount of their monthly premium. This keeps competition alive, lowers costs, and lets the individual help themselves. If they elect not to get insurance then it is a choice. Don't force health insurance on someone that does now want it.

Winner - McCain

The Economy - There are multiple factors involved here. First is Oil and Gas prices, second is the housing market, and third is taxes and government revenue.

Obama - he and the democrats want to tax the Oil companies on their profits, which by the way are only 4%, rather than attempt to find a solution. This is one of those emotional responses, to make the angry consumer feel like they are getting back at *big oil.* This does nothing to actually find a solution. Though Obama said he has a *plan* to fix this he has never once given any details about this *plan.* The housing market. This as was said is due to greed and speculation and writing bad loans, and was started back a while ago. The end result is that those people that were too greedy got caught with their pants down. I saw some data the other day that put this issue in a more realistic light. In the last two years since the housing *crisis* started home values have fallen 6%. However, when you compare the current housing prices to what they were 6 years ago they have risen 61%. In the stock market this is called a correction. Taxes - The Bush Admin lowered taxes and increased the revenue earned by the US government. Obama wants to remove those tax breaks and increase our taxes again. When it was pointed out to him that by doing so he was going to cause the revenue to go down he said. "Oh well, It is the fair thing to do." This goes back to something that scares me about Obama, redistribution of wealth. He wants to take all the money we make in and give it out evenly. I don't know about you but I work hard for my money.

McCain - wants to have more Nuke power plants, wants to remove the federal gas tax for the summer. Which BTW is 15%. Lots more than that 4% profit the oil companies get. He wants to allow us to drill the oil reserves we have here already. He also wants to allow alternative fuel development. This is the difference I have found between the Dems and Repubs. The Dems want to complain about it, punish the oil companies, and not allow a solution to be implemented. The Repubs want to actually do something about the problem. Housing market already been talked about. Taxes - McCain is against raising them and wants to keep them low as they are. He also wants to lower spending in the budget. This is the opposite of Obama who wants to add more and more spending AND Taxes. McCain promises to veto any earmark spending bills that contain pork and special interest projects.

Winner - McCain

McCain is just the better of the two choices. He leans occasionally to the center, and has supporters such as Liberman across the isle which meet with my center leaning ideas and will allow him to do more than Obama. He is strong on the defense of our country, and is against big government. I know I may be long winded but I think these are important facts. Saying McCain is another Bush is just foolish, they are not the same, and McCain can do great things if allowed.

Obama says he is about change, but of course that is just until he is elected, then it will be all about staying the same in 4 years when he wants to run again. Change will be bad then. So I say good luck to Obama and touring those 57 states he says we have. He won't have my vote come November. I like to have just one mother thanks, but no thanks.

[Feidb]

Realmzmaster,

Yeah, it's irrational that I despise that man. Can't explain it, can't give you an adequate answer that would make sense. I just do. I despise Bush for different reasons, his policies, his attitude. With Obama, it's just a vibe I can't shake. Sorry if it upsets you, but that's just my warning bells going off as in don't open that door, or turn that corner.

Feidb

[realmzmaster]

Feidb,

Actually it does not upset me. I simply come from a different mindset I guess. I personally have to met the person. But, I rarely despise anyone, it takes to much effort that I can spend in better pursuits.

Necromis

Obama will play the cards that he is dealt. If that is the race card it will be played for or against Obama. Obama's race can work for him or against him depending on what state you are in.
The race card will stop being played when both sides (Democrat and Republican) and America forget to put it in the deck and become colorblind. I guess someday gender will no longer be a card either.

Now the administration and McCain wants to lift the ban to drill along the coastal states and Alaska. This is a short term stopgap for a long term problem. You are trying to put a band-aid on a shot gun wound. The amount of oil would not come anywhere near satisfying the nation's need. It an illusion, especially if the nation keeps consuming oil at the same rate.

How do you protect the coasts and Alaska from oil spills? And it is not a matter of if it will happen, but when. No matter how strong you build an oil rig there is nothing made by man Nature cannot destroy. And then there is human error.

And what to do with all the nuclear waste? Bury it in some desert like a ticking time bomb. What state wants to housed millions of tons of nuclear waste and waste water?

If all the pollution in the world stopped. Nature would eventually restore itself, but that is not going to happen. We are our own worst enemies.

As far as healthcare, maybe we should let them die and decrease the surplus population. This way all we have to do is worry about burying them or we could go Soylent Green. I am not for universal healthcare, but the system in place now sucks air. When it comes to healthcare the poor are somewhat taken care of, the rich can afford better care. The middle class are getting walked over.

I have health insurance that covered my wife and children. My daughter and son graduated from college. I had to discontinue them from my insurance. I was told if I wanted to keep them on it would cost me $1000 a month for each child. Luckily my son found a job with benefits, my daughter not so lucky.

I also have neighbors to the north, who have no problem with their univerisal healthcare. In fact are quite happy with it.

I personally have nothing against McCain except I hear more of the same tired Bush rhetoric coming from him.
Obama doe not bother me. The continued staus quo bothers me. I am for change good or bad. It would alleivate the monotony.

[Necromis]

realmzmaster -

Actually you are wrong on a couple of things. First we actually have more oil reserves here in the US than what is currently being drilled in the middle east and that is by conservative estimates from over 20 years ago. Secondly we have over 4000 oil rigs in the Gulf right now and 3000 of them were in direct line of Katrina and Rita, two of the worst storms to hit the Gulf in quite some time and not a single rig was damaged. The technology in place these days for oil drilling is designed to have as little impact on the environment as possible. The Nuclear power plants these days do not actually produce the waste like the old ones did. They are actually a clean source of energy. You are think of the old style plants.

These efforts for more oil is to help in the short term, not the long run. We need this in place while alternative fuels are developed. It really angers me when politicians say, "this won't lower prices now, this won't effect anything for 10 years." Duh, are these guys short sited myopic idiots? First, it will help some in the short term by showing we will be increasing product. Plus will probably cause the OPECers to increase production to keep us from drilling. Second, these idiots in washington should be thinking long term, not just tomorrow. Otherwise get the heck outa washington.

Healthcare is not perfect but is far better than what is being suggested. Most places will work with you on payments, there are state run hospitals that do indigent care, and most companies offer insurance these days. Your kids would have been taken care of under the indigent care if something major would have happened. Look at all the illegals that get this care already.

I believe you pointed out that Obama will be as good as his advisors, and that is actually another thing that worries me about him. Rev. Wright, William Aires, and several others are his advisors. The first one considers the country the US of KKK A, the other has plotted terrorist attacks in this country. If he has such poor judgement in advisors and then listens to their advise we are in for a change alright, a BAD one.

[realmzmaster]

Necromis

Depends on your definition of clean! Where do you put the spent solid nuclear waste? Right now most U.S. waste is currently stored in temporary storage sites requiring oversight (desert and moantain locations). This waste will take decades, if not centuries to decay.

Rita and Katrina damaged and destroyed oil rigs big time . I guess the report out of Houston Texas by the Dominican Today on Septemeber 28 2005 was in error:

HOUSTON, Texas.- The initial damage assessments indicate that hurricane Rita caused more damage to oil rigs than any other storm in history, forcing drilling companies to delay work n the US and as far away as the Middle East.

CBS News :

(CBS/AP) Hurricane Rita may have caused more damage to rigs and platforms than any Gulf of Mexico storm, even its formidable predecessor Katrina, oil and gas analysts said on Wednesday.

The double-whammy of those hurricanes has already cost the Gulf almost 7 percent of its annual oil production and 5 percent of its yearly natural gas output, according to a report Wednesday from the U.S. Minerals Management Service.

"The impact on the rigs is something that's never been seen by this country before," said Daniel Naatz, director of federal resources for the Independent Petroleum Association of America.

Check here to see the oil rigs destroyed: http://www.cccarto.com/rita/

As far as oil, I guess you have not read the May 2008 report of the Energy Information Administration concerning Alaska reserves. Even if drilling began today the first barrel of oil would not be produced until 2018. What does the nation do for those ten years? Even then there is a 50% chance that it will produce 2.6 billion barrels between 2018 and 2030. (estimates range from 1.9 to 4.3 as extremes).

The United States consumes 8 billion barrels of oil a year and increasing. So in those 12 years (not counting the ten years it takes to get the plant in operation). The United States will consume 96 billion barrels of oil. 2.6 billion accounts about 2% of the total consumption. Now add in the 10 years to establish the plant, that is another 80 billion barrels consumed. Total consumption 176 billion barrels. Alaska at best will net 4.3 billion barrels over 12 years.

As far as healthcare, my daughter's boyfriend went to the county hospital for irregular breathing ( He has asthma). My daughter and I went with him. We waited from 6 am in the morning until 6 pm that evening. He was finally seen by a doctor after he went into a full blown asthmatic attack. A shame you nearly have to die to see a doctor. So do not tell me about indigent healthcare, I have seen it in action.

We can agree to disagree, but from my experiences I am backing Obama.

[Evnissyen]

Maelstrom:
"Present", in the Illinois senate, is a common legislative tactic. By 'voting' "present" you are stating that you neither support nor oppose a proposed legislation and are therefore open to be persuaded one way or another if the legislation is changed.

Charisma and communications skills are important qualities if you're electing a leader. McCain, unfortunately, has neither quality. He also has not made encouraging statements on his willingness to tackle the economic problem which is the issue this election cycle.

As for universal health care: We need a single-payer system. Insurance companies should not be involved in health care. Insurance companies are set up not to supply health care but to deny it to patients. It also ends up costing more, due to the overhead, the profit margins, and the excessive advertising necessary to compete with other insurance companies. What's more: under a single-payer system you'd be able to choose your own doctor. What a concept!

Necromis:
Guess what: In an utterly free-market system you'd be working much, much harder. The company you work for would set the contracts and pay rates and you'd have to settle for it. What do you think we have a government for? To ensure the safety, welfare, and productivity of its people. A healthy economy is an economy that allows competition and also allows workers to earn a living wage and give back to the consumer system.

Anyhow, you need to get your facts straight.

We cannot process more oil if our refineries are at full capacity. We need to build more refineries first. And the "drill everywhere!" argument, for the reasons Realmzmaster points out, are a political gimmick, like the "gas tax holiday".

Who's coming across the border from Canada to pay for health care here? Did you get this from Fox News, or something? Or did you read it on Conservapedia? You can't get health care reduction in this country if you're not a citizen, and if you're not a citizen and don't have insurance then you pay full cost. In Canada it's free, and from what I hear: Canadians seem to like it that way. All the other developed nations in the world who have a single-payer system seem to appreciate that as well. Perhaps Americans should stop pretending they're the most fortunate and righteous people on the planet and begin paying attention to the reasons why other nations have lower crime rates, superior health coverage, longer life spans for their citizens, better education....

Obama has more political experience than Hillary Clinton has. He served two terms in the Illinois Senate before going to Washington. Before then he was a community organizer.

Obama, in fact, wants to lower taxes for Americans earning less than 250 grand -- which is the vast majority -- and raise taxes for those above the line. Where do you fall among those numbers? If you're in the upper tier than I suppose you've nothing to worry about.

Obama has never played the race card. It's his opponents who've been doing it, thus forcing him to respond.

Name me one issue "bordering on Socialism" that Obama's proposed. His positions are not even liberal, they're moderate. And do not even say "universal health care". Besides the fact that he has not proposed a single-payer system (which I favor), neither universal health care nor a single-payer system is Socialism. Look up the word.

He does not have a plan to "just get us the heck out of there the heck with the consequences". He's been, actually, quite opaque (fortunately or unfortunately) on his plan for withdrawal and just how long it'll take... by most people's best assessments it looks, unfortunately, like he plans to pull out troops so gradually that we'll still have a military presence there in 2013, even though the Iraqi's want us gone. Also: Germany , Japan and South Korea are hardly comparable to Iraq. Those are stable zones -- and highly prosperous ones at that -- that are not filled with religious fanatics who hate Americans for occupying their country. However... the good news is that he will likely bring in other nations to help, whereas McCain, I'm sorry, will have more difficulty in that area, and I believe you know the reason why.

And... Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright are Obama's advisors? Honestly, you need to stop listening to Rush, O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Fox & Friends or whomever you've been drawing this nonsense from, and start focusing on some legitimate news sources.

[Mongolian]

The issues I have with Obama is first of all he is a liar.

No poop, welcome to Politics 101. It's always been about shutting up when it comes to a topic where you don't support the popular opinion and changing your stance if that stance makes you seem weak. Bottomline is of almost all the issue you will never be able to trust any US bipartisan candidate on his beliefs.

I base my descision on who will most likely seems that they will help the US. Obama, although being extremely more intelligent, McCain's cabinet are better picks. Change? No...it's not change, it's who the fark is going to get out of this depression the better. McCain has "more experience" is a load of BS too, I'll trust both just as equall on that topic. Moral of the story, no matter how farked up Obama might be, I don't want another farking 3rd term of Bush.

Who ever is president is probablly going to be seen as a bad choice.

[realmzmaster]

Hello Mongolian,

Please watch the language! We do have young people and people who are offended by foul language that read the forum. Keep your language clean. Please.

[Mongolian]

revised* oops

[Higher Game]

What a lot of delusional cornucopians refuse to recognize is that the Ameircan West will have drained all of its fossil water before any nuclear waste could ever seep into the water table. We'll have desalination, powered by nuclear of course, well before the waste could cause any harm. I fail to see how burying the stuff (or better yet reprocessing) is better than what we do now, which is breath in coal pollution which causes asthma, cancer, global warming, etc. Yet Obama caves in with the fringe envirotards (good environmentalists usually call themselves conservationists anyway), you know, the types who call wind power "view pollution". They're all pawns of the coal industry and Obama supports that more than the American people.

McCain's pro-nuclear policy alone is enough for him to win my support. His general moderate stances (compared to Obama being the most liberal senator according to National Journal) are just another bonus, except perhaps his tolerance of illegal aliens.

[Evnissyen]

First of all: The National Journal calls every Democratic senator running for president "the most liberal Senator" and/or "more liberal than Ted Kennedy" every election cycle. Last time around it was John Kerry. John Edwards was ranked #2. Now... suddenly Mr. Obama is #1. Gee, do you think the National Review has an agenda?

Second: The problem with the storage of nuclear waste is that you need to provide top-notch security wherever you bury it for about as long as human beings remain extant, since I don't think you'll want to allow a terrorist the capability of spawning an environmental disaster. ...And this is, of course, only after you locate an area that is absolutely earthquake-proof and not prone to any other sort of disaster (if you take a look at a detailed tectonic map: you'll see it's not as easy as most people might believe), but bad things happen. While nuclear waste is forever, security is not. If and/or when the radiation leaks into the atmosphere: it won't be just America's problem.

That being said: Obama has said he supports nuclear energy in the short term while we're searching for alternative energies (which I believe he intends to increase funding for ... McCain offers "a prize" -- as if researchers really need that extra incentive. What researchers really need is funding upfront, and imaginative graduates to be drawn to that field).

So there's really no argument in policy difference to be made there except in each candidate's commitment to pursuing alternative fuels (rather than pandering to the oil companies) and the viability of his approach(es). Those commercials in which McCain accuses Obama of opposing nuclear energy? Outright lies. Look at any reasoned analysis. Better yet: Take a look at Obama's website: His positions on this matter are probably outlined there.

My personal position on nuclear energy is still not determined. I'm not totally convinced that wind, solar and water power, properly located, are not so expensive and unproductive that they are less acceptable than the negatives of nuclear energy. ...But at least it doesn't contribute to global warming.

[Mongolian]

Again, funny how people are so head strong opinionated by a misinformed stance. Which again, brings me back to my point. Both candidates are going to say one thing and do another. Politics is about apeasing the majority vote, not about who is the best candidate per say. That being said, its more important to choose a candidate who sounds like educated answers apply. And McCain, no matter how "experienced" he is (which I don't even know what he is experienced to do), really just seems to make obvious choices which is not what the country needs at this time. Despite the lack of experience, I trust Obama's instincts and respect how he goes about the issues.

[Necromis]

Again, funny how people are so head strong opinionated by a misinformed stance. Which again, brings me back to my point. Both candidates are going to say one thing and do another. Politics is about apeasing the majority vote, not about who is the best candidate per say. That being said, its more important to choose a candidate who sounds like educated answers apply. And McCain, no matter how "experienced" he is (which I don't even know what he is experienced to do), really just seems to make obvious choices which is not what the country needs at this time. Despite the lack of experience, I trust Obama's instincts and respect how he goes about the issues.

Mongolian - If you actually followed the men you would see where they stand. Look at the two voting records. McCain actually stands for the things he says. If you look at Obama he changes his answer day by day, week by week to suit whatever crowd he is talking to. Obama's ideas would actually hurt the country more than it is now. After all we pay high enough taxes as it is. Plus the gas prices. Imagine how the economy will fall when he raises your taxes as well. We will be in another great depression based on his *recovery* plan.