DRM, again...

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BasiliskWrangler
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DRM, again...

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

Soldak has posted on his blog regarding Ubisoft's new draconian digital-rights management system. Long story short: Ubisoft thinks they can outsmart pirates, and the pirates will win.

The greater problem is that PC gaming is dying. It is dying because so many people think downloading free software is their right as an air-breathing human being. Publishers are moving over to consoles and server-side games quicker than you can say "Alan Wake".

Humans are a funny species. An individual thinks that the one game they download won't affect anything. It won't hurt the developer. The sale won't be missed. But a million individuals thinking this same way is what causes a company to bleed profits which leaves them unable to continue to make the kinds of games we love.

Indie developers are far more affected by this. Basilisk Games, for example, might live or die by 1000 sales lost or gained. Soldak, and Spiderweb, are no different.
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MyGameCompany
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by MyGameCompany »

Amen to that!

You've inspired me to repost a blog entry that I made about piracy back in 2007. I have more readers now, so this is a good time to bring it up again.
http://www.mygamecompany.com/forums/sho ... .php?t=421
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Randomizer »

Jeff Vogel posted twice in his blog on the same subject:

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/

I've never seen a DRM that won't fail eventually from looking up a password in a manual to Autodesk's using a hardware dongle that was attached to a computer port to run it's AutoCAD program.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Kreador Freeaxe »

Interestingly, my friend at Ubisoft said that what's being reported and discussed on boards bears about as much connection to the reality of what they're doing as a discussion of whether the moon landing was filmed in New Mexico or Nebraska. He didn't go into more detail than that, but this is one of those issues that clearly raises a lot of alarms, just like arguments about e-book pricing and piracy there raise the hackles of those of us in publishing.
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Saxon1974
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Saxon1974 »

This saddens me....If you like a game allow the developer to get paid for it!

It's alot of work to make a game especially an RPG game (I have tried to make a couple and didnt have the time) so if you like the game let them get paid for it!

Sure hate to see PC RPG's die, hope they never do....now if bigs studios that make Action RPG's die and more indies making real ones spring up, thats a good thing but I digress.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by CrazyBernie »

I won't argue that piracy is a rampant problem, but it seems to me that more often than not, the BGC's (Big Game Companies) cry "It's the Pirates!" whenever a game doesn't sell well - when in reality it's because the game was a rushed, buggy hack job that nobody wants to play. But rather than own up to a deficiency, it's always easier to blame it on something that's already a known problem.

Seriously, just how many WWII fps games do we need? How many times do we need to save Private Ryan? 0_o

PC Gaming is getting stifled by coporate mentality and lack of innovation. I see the same thing happening to consoles.

When you compare the BGC's with the LG's (Little Guys), their money problems are polar opposites. The BGC's have just gotten to big to support themselves, where the LG's are usually undermanned.
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Iane
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Iane »

Assassin's Creed 2 will be my last game with this Garbage in it - I'd like to get C&C 4 but EA have totally screwed everyone on that one so that's a no sale to me - I just hope and prey that a few up coming games I'm looking forward too do not have such crap and the main one being 2worlds2.

Anyway on the release of Book II I'll be doing the same thing I did when book I was released - It's not much I know BW but I hope it helps ;)
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Rollor »

Piracy isn't the best thing ever but I do believe crappy console ports is what is killing pc gaming and not piracy. Today pc's are way more powerfull than consoles, still we see time after time, games which wont run fair even on extreme configurations. Why would any one buy such a turd?
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Evnissyen »

Speaking of console competition . . . am I the only one who still feels a little bit lost on the idea of why somebody would want to spend $$$ on a separate device to play games which they could otherwise play -- so long as the developer programs the game for it -- on their computer?

I'm sure I'm missing all kinds of information as to why the Wii or Xbox is better than the PC or Mac as far as gaming goes... but, still... if you already have a computer... ?

Forgive me if I'm just stupid . . . I just prefer to keep things as simple as possible, and at a minimum of expense.

I'm sure somebody here can enlighten me... so please do? :?

As far as the protection schemes go . . . as I've mentioned in another thread, I agree that some developers are going a little overboard, and thus hurting their own market for the PC, and that having to keep open a high-speed connection constantly -- hoping against any interruption or a downed server -- just to play a game you spent plenty of money to own, is more than ludicrous, it's an outrage.

As for the console-computer competition... I cannot comment on that (apart from the manner in which I just did), although I feel it's a mistake for some developers to ignore the PC market in strict favor of the console market, even if the PC market does open them up to pirating.

At any rate, as far as I'm concerned: developers of FPS's can do whatever they like, so long as I still get to play my RPG's and adventure games on my beloved computer.


EDIT: Bernie: Love your new avatar.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by CrazyBernie »

Evnissyen wrote:Speaking of console competition . . . am I the only one who still feels a little bit lost on the idea of why somebody would want to spend $$$ on a separate device to play games which they could otherwise play -- so long as the developer programs the game for it -- on their computer?

I'm sure I'm missing all kinds of information as to why the Wii or Xbox is better than the PC or Mac as far as gaming goes... but, still... if you already have a computer... ?

Forgive me if I'm just stupid . . . I just prefer to keep things as simple as possible, and at a minimum of expense.

As far as the protection schemes go . . . as I've mentioned in another thread, I agree that some developers are going a little overboard, and thus killing their own market for the PC, and that having to keep open a high-speed connection constantly -- hoping against any interruption or a downed server -- just to play a game you spent plenty of money for, is more than ludicrous, it's an outrage.
As for the console-computer competition... I cannot comment on that (apart from the manner in which I just did), although I feel it's a mistake for developers to ignore the PC market in strict favor of the console market . . . at any rate, developers of FPS's can do whatever they like, so long as I still get to play my RPG's and adventure games on my beloved computer.
Consoles are generally easier to create games for... developers don't have to worry about coding their games for a plethora of hardware as they do in the PC market. This can drastically reduce the development process as it requires much less testing. Some games are created with exclusivity on specific consoles - it's not uncommon to see people buy a system just to play one particular game.

And the idea behind consoles is that a console itself is cheaper than a powerful gaming PC... so you can theoretically play games for less when looking at TCO. Since all the games are specifically programmed for the console, you don't have to worry about things like upgrading to play the newest game. Of course, as technology evolves consoles get left behind pretty fast in terms of what they can do vs a powerful gaming PC.

Companies tend to make more money (at least they certainly charge more) on console games because of the closed-platform. The BGC's (big game companies) also claim that they are switching to consoles because of piracy... that's a load of bullshit (pardon my language). If anything, consoles these days are even easier to pirate games for. No doubt in the near future you'll start seeing the same heavy handed draconian protection methods being implemented on consoles... you'll have to be connected to the internet to play a game, need a cryptic serial key that you'll lose and be required to re-purchase, and other such nonsense.

I loved my Xbox 360, but I really didn't use it much... and sold it before I moved. If I ever start making money again, I'll definitely pick up another... and one for my Dad as well so we can play some co-op games. But nothing beats a well equipped PC for the ultimate gaming experience.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Arkos »

It's like some sort of war between two very stupid armies. You almost hope they wind up annihilating each other. I find myself at a loss for who to root for. The stupid pirates who think they are entitled to free games or the stupid game companies that think draconic DRM that only hurts their paying customers is somehow going to thwart the pirates.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Evnissyen »

Hear, hear!

Agreed.

Hmm... . Maybe a hero(ine) can come along out of nowhere, learn a lot of spells and gain a lot of experience with absurd rapidity and then get between the two and save the world?

No crazy DRM, I hope, for that one?

Anyhow, the argument Jeff Vogel makes as to why he thinks this DRM strategy will actually work and therefore be used again in the future is convincing, and definitely something harsh to think about.

Methinks the only way of combating both piracy and crazy DRM strategies is to somehow engender a culture of mutual respect and accomodation, though this is obviously much, much harder than simply hiking up the price to $60+ and/or installing a crazy DRM.

...But one step toward establishing such a culture of mutual respect for developers & players, I think, would be to not hike up the price and not install a crazy DRM.

(Note: I do understand that raising or lowering the price is not going to affect how many people crack your game . . . but I suspect it does affect how many people decide not to buy it (at least short term, while the price remains high) and how many people buy it pirated, the latter of which -- not the former -- is the problem.)
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by AstralWanderer »

BasiliskWrangler wrote:...The greater problem is that PC gaming is dying. It is dying because so many people think downloading free software is their right as an air-breathing human being. Publishers are moving over to consoles and server-side games quicker than you can say "Alan Wake".
Ah yes, we all know the PC games industry is dying - it's been busy doing so since the 1980's...

The reason-of-the-day varies - piracy, second hand sales, consoles, evil DRM-worshipping publishers or evil big retailers.

Of course, other factors like the lower prices charged for games compared to 10 years ago, the drastic price cuts for almost any game more than a month old, the escalating budgets for AAA titles, the excessive margins demanded by distributors/retailers, the limited shelf space for PC games in retail (most games shops seem to be console exclusive) rarely seem to get a mention.

I'm not condoning piracy - but to condemn it as the "big evil" of PC gaming is to overlook many of the other inanities of the business. How on earth can companies expect to make decent profits on a game which starts at $30 but drops to $15-20 after 3-4 months? The most extreme example I encountered was with TitanQuest - I purchased a copy new for just £7 (about US$11) just seven months after release. Add to that the extreme bugginess of many new releases and you have a situation where a prospective buyer would have to be almost brain-damaged to buy most games on release.

Do also consider the likelihood that many of those who commit copyright infringement may be minors without the ability to purchase online, who then become regular consumers when they gain an income (this applied to me, though I was doing all my games "swapping" back in Apple II days...).

The most interesting point Soldak makes is that buyers who tolerate DRM are part of the problem. I agree wholeheartedly with this - DRM is the major publishers' way of gaining as much control over customers as they think they can get away with (and targets the legitimate second-hand market rather than piracy anyway). Boycotting Ubisoft (and posting why in their forum) is the most responsible approach.
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Iane
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Iane »

More Bad news for UBI

http://games.on.net/article/8521/Austra ... o_DRM_woes

and a very interesting Article by the boys over at Wolfire

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/03/Interne ... line-world
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Re: DRM, again...

Post by Evnissyen »

Poor Australia... . :(

Bush is gone and other nations are still getting screwed by Americans.
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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