Shadowrun did most everything right

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Leezar
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Shadowrun did most everything right

Post by Leezar » October 27th, 2015, 5:50 am

Hi all,

Like many others, I spend a lot of time thinking of game rules despite the fact that I am unlikely to ever make anything myself, and I have to say Shadowrun got most things right.

Cooldowns (made even better than Paper Sorcerer), small party and not solo but occasionally you must go solo, special rewards for whichever line of profession you chose, very storybased (although it did lack somewhat on freedom, something we have gotten used to, I think the perfect middleground would be something like (Shadowrun + Guardian Legend + The Witcher + Baldurs Gate) / 4 would be the perfect formula), pitched battles instead of "corner" attack a foe one by one (Red Steel 2 is also a poster child for this, in fact, I think Red Steel 2 did it better than anyone else, including Shadowrun and even Realmz), and sleek - although perhaps to sleek, a just somewhat lower pace wouldnt have hurt. And perhaps more decent non-playable character interaction and development - but then you really need a game the length of Baldurs Gate to make it work, for a shorter game to deep character immersion is just annoying.

And finally, skills become increasingly more expensive to encourage diversification of skills, but to much diversification makes you suffer, so you still invest more heavily in one line of profession AND if you chose to absolutely to go all balls in for one particular line of profession you are also rewarded when your stats precisely fits the bill (although then truly suffer when it doesnt). But thats not all - as far as I am concerned (I have not played every single game in existance) they added some truly interesting innovation to this bit. You can only have 4-6 spells equipped at all times, and 2 to 4 weapons (I think) which makes decking, rigging and fighting compete and then armor and cyber compete, and then cyber and magic compete, and so on. This REALLY makes you think twice how you build your character, or how you equip for mission etc and which allies you bring and so on and so forth.

"But cooldowns and limited equipment and sending stuff to stash is not realistic!!!"
Yeah, but taking a fistful of bullets from a caliber 45 in your face at two meters range and live to tell the tale is. My opionon is that realism is like a desert - its a good way to top of your dinner, but it cant be ALL you get to eat, and it shouldnt take the focus away from the rest of the food. IF you can make a game truly realistic and still fun to play, congrats. If you cant, always pick playability.

Well, thats my thoughts, anyways.
Roughly at the same time I penetrate your betrothed, you will be penetrated by this sharpened pole

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vdweller
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Re: Shadowrun did most everything right

Post by vdweller » October 27th, 2015, 12:19 pm

Yeah but Matrix wasn't even close to the awesomeness that it was in SR for the Sega Genesis. OK maybe in Hong Kong it was better than the previous two but still.

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blatherbeard
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Re: Shadowrun did most everything right

Post by blatherbeard » October 27th, 2015, 8:39 pm

Loved the SR version for the Super NES, but i didnt love this current one. (not the most current one, but the one that was kickstarted)

didnt think it was bad or anything, just didnt capture my attention.

then again i like to be characters that do everything and are the sole ass kickers in most games. ;)

id really have to re-play it to get a better opinion i think. I just remember saying, hey not bad but i just dont feel like playing this now.

someday ill prob revisit it, and about 100 other games ive never fully immersed myself in, and maybe that opinion will change.

DAMN MY ADD!!
The armies joined in a bloody battle on this fine day, then storm clouds broke, and it rained.

So they all went home.---Story knots within blatherbeards Beard.

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Leezar
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Re: Shadowrun did most everything right

Post by Leezar » October 28th, 2015, 6:55 am

vdweller wrote:Yeah but Matrix wasn't even close to the awesomeness that it was in SR for the Sega Genesis. OK maybe in Hong Kong it was better than the previous two but still.
I agree, the Matrix could maybe have been nice if it was a stand-alone game, but for now it is way to similar to meat space fighting.

As it were, I have actually already considered how the Matrix should have been done;

A FF-style combat with your persona + some programs against the node and whatever anti-virus program it has combined with a tile-laying game. Most tiles are empty, your goal is to uncover the tiles that have goodies on them and take what you want and avoid tiles with baddies on them - of course, these tiles are often one and same, but...

Big focus on detection and non-detection and approval and non-approval. When you first breach a node, you have to roll for detection and access levels. Each time you explore a tile, you have to roll for detection. If you are detected, you raise the alert level. And finally, each time you do an impromptu action (like accesing database), you have to roll for detection - or - if you do an impromptu action on a tile you have already been detected on, you raise the alertness level a shitload - or - if you have tricked the node into thinking you have access rights, you neither need to roll for detection nor do you increase the alertness level. Raising alertness summons more and angrier anti-virus programs, decreasing "hiddenness" increase the anti-virus programs chance of spotting you to the point they cannot even attack (unless you attack them, this action really decrease "hiddenness"). And, of course, accessing more than one node at once means big trouble, as you will have to nodes searching for and attacking you. Thus, you can go slow and safe or hard and unsafe. Of course, nodes can be completely overpowered as well, leaving them defenceless. Oh, and certain goodies have internal defence that is triggered when you mess with them.

Simply put, you can be detected but considered to have access rights and left alone, you can alert the system but stay hidden and is therefore left alone OR you can overpower the node.

So each round, you + your programs have a certain number of actions, FF choice style;
1. Explore (lay a tile) / Access (try to decode a goodie)
2. Cover (increase you non-detection) / Befriend (decrease alertness and tricks node into thinking you have access rights)
3. Sniff (increase your detection of the enemy OR search tiles you do have not uncovered to see which tiles are guarded and which have goodies, to better plan your route)
4. Attack (duh)
5. Special (healing or wtf)

I believe this creates the feeling of infiltrating the "brain" of beings that are a mix of computers and organisms, just like the AI nodes kind of are.
Roughly at the same time I penetrate your betrothed, you will be penetrated by this sharpened pole

Parasolsyndicate
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Re: Shadowrun did most everything right

Post by Parasolsyndicate » November 8th, 2015, 8:15 pm

I personally would have enjoyed Decking being completely off camera, with attribute/ skill checks to do things.
Because in theory, that'd lead to more levels/objectives in meatspace.

But I accept that I'm in the minority, and people like interacting with the matrix.

Regardless, HBS' Shadowrun games are all really good, and almost criminally unappreciated.

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