Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

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Farwalker
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Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Farwalker »

Here's another move silently bug, perhaps fell through the cracks to be fixed from Book 1?

Dexterity doesn't give you a benefit for moving silently, despite the description of move silently that says it should.

My test was as follows:
No armor, testing with dwarven guards as a reference. Numbers are how close you can be, walk or stand, and be silent.

For move silent skill = 1
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away

For move silent skill = 5
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away

For move silent skill = 9
Dex 14: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away

Could we please have this fixed?
Thanks,
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by cal1s »

Hm, interesting.
I've read somewhere in these forums that pumping points into the actual skill has a greater effect than raising attribute values ...
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by IJBall »

cal1s wrote:Hm, interesting.
I've read somewhere in these forums that pumping points into the actual skill has a greater effect than raising attribute values ...
Yes, but if it's anything like Book I, every 5 points in an Attribute usually functions like raising the actual Skill by 1 Level.

So Farwalker should probably have seen the equivalent of 10 Levels of improvement in Move Silently in going from DEX=14 to DEX=60!
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Farwalker »

Yes, I'm tempted to just grab a hex editor and add in extra skill levels corresponding to Dexterity. Not sure how long a wait it's likely to be to see some of these things corrected.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

This is being looked at for 1.04.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Farwalker »

Excellent, thanks BW!
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by BasiliskWrangler »

I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by IJBall »

BasiliskWrangler wrote:I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.

I realize that it's far too late to do anything about this for Book II.

But I'd like to revisit this issue with Dodge when we discuss Book III development... :)
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by KillingMoon »

IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by IJBall »

KillingMoon wrote:
IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.
I'm quite OK with it being Concentration instead of Dexterity, if making 'Dodge' tied into Dexterity makes DEX too powerful. Heck, tie it into Speed for all I care!! :roll: :wink:

I just feel strongly that Dodge should be tied into some Attribute - that way, as with Move Silently, etc., there might be some small increased chance of a melee 'Dodge', perhaps even with no formal skill levels put into 'Dodge' (i.e. with just DEX=10 or CON=10 - or heck! make it DEX=20 or CON=20 instead! - there might still be a 1% chance of a 'Dodge' during melee, even without formally having the Dodge skill). And then Dodge could progress with increased DEX or CON, just as Move Silently now does.

I think this might go a long way towards addressing my complaints about Dodge going back to Book I.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Kreador Freeaxe »

IJBall wrote:
KillingMoon wrote:
IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.
I'm quite OK with it being Concentration instead of Dexterity, if making 'Dodge' tied into Dexterity makes DEX too powerful. Heck, tie it into Speed for all I care!! :roll: :wink:

I just feel strongly that Dodge should be tied into some Attribute - that way, as with Move Silently, etc., there might be some small increased chance of a melee 'Dodge', perhaps even with no formal skill levels put into 'Dodge' (i.e. with just DEX=10 or CON=10 - or heck! make it DEX=20 or CON=20 instead! - there might still be a 1% chance of a 'Dodge' during melee, even without formally having the Dodge skill). And then Dodge could progress with increased DEX or CON, just as Move Silently now does.

I think this might go a long way towards addressing my complaints about Dodge going back to Book I.
I think tying Dodge into Speed makes the most sense, and actually gives players more reason to put some points into Speed. If you're fast, not only can you do more damage, but you have the chance to avoid damage more.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Farwalker »

Yep, I also agree that speed would be a good choice to complement dodge.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently

Post by Farwalker »

BasiliskWrangler wrote:I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
Ok, back to the topic at hand... I'm concerned that getting 1 effective point of move silent for every 3 dexterity is going to be too strong an influence from dexterity.

I did some quick calcs, and for most builds I might play I'd end up not having to invest points into Move Silently at all. That's partly because the benefit of buffing dexterity will then be so high.

I can train / read book to get the skill to 10, then with base 12 Dex I'm up to 14, buff up to 22, even add a move silent ring or two on top of that and I can walk right past someone without them hearing me - and I haven't spent a point.

I'm thinking 1 effective point of move silent for every 5 dexterity would be balanced just about perfect.

That's my two cents... :|
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