Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Here's another move silently bug, perhaps fell through the cracks to be fixed from Book 1?
Dexterity doesn't give you a benefit for moving silently, despite the description of move silently that says it should.
My test was as follows:
No armor, testing with dwarven guards as a reference. Numbers are how close you can be, walk or stand, and be silent.
For move silent skill = 1
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away
For move silent skill = 5
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away
For move silent skill = 9
Dex 14: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away
Could we please have this fixed?
Thanks,
Farwalker
Dexterity doesn't give you a benefit for moving silently, despite the description of move silently that says it should.
My test was as follows:
No armor, testing with dwarven guards as a reference. Numbers are how close you can be, walk or stand, and be silent.
For move silent skill = 1
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 7 away
For move silent skill = 5
Dex 14: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away, Walk 6 away
For move silent skill = 9
Dex 14: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away
Dex 60: Stand 2 away (or 1 diagonal), Walk 5 away
Could we please have this fixed?
Thanks,
Farwalker
- cal1s
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Hm, interesting.
I've read somewhere in these forums that pumping points into the actual skill has a greater effect than raising attribute values ...
I've read somewhere in these forums that pumping points into the actual skill has a greater effect than raising attribute values ...
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Yes, but if it's anything like Book I, every 5 points in an Attribute usually functions like raising the actual Skill by 1 Level.cal1s wrote:Hm, interesting.
I've read somewhere in these forums that pumping points into the actual skill has a greater effect than raising attribute values ...
So Farwalker should probably have seen the equivalent of 10 Levels of improvement in Move Silently in going from DEX=14 to DEX=60!
Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Yes, I'm tempted to just grab a hex editor and add in extra skill levels corresponding to Dexterity. Not sure how long a wait it's likely to be to see some of these things corrected.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
This is being looked at for 1.04.
Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Excellent, thanks BW!
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.BasiliskWrangler wrote:I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
I realize that it's far too late to do anything about this for Book II.
But I'd like to revisit this issue with Dodge when we discuss Book III development...
- KillingMoon
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
I'm quite OK with it being Concentration instead of Dexterity, if making 'Dodge' tied into Dexterity makes DEX too powerful. Heck, tie it into Speed for all I care!!KillingMoon wrote:Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
I just feel strongly that Dodge should be tied into some Attribute - that way, as with Move Silently, etc., there might be some small increased chance of a melee 'Dodge', perhaps even with no formal skill levels put into 'Dodge' (i.e. with just DEX=10 or CON=10 - or heck! make it DEX=20 or CON=20 instead! - there might still be a 1% chance of a 'Dodge' during melee, even without formally having the Dodge skill). And then Dodge could progress with increased DEX or CON, just as Move Silently now does.
I think this might go a long way towards addressing my complaints about Dodge going back to Book I.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
I think tying Dodge into Speed makes the most sense, and actually gives players more reason to put some points into Speed. If you're fast, not only can you do more damage, but you have the chance to avoid damage more.IJBall wrote:I'm quite OK with it being Concentration instead of Dexterity, if making 'Dodge' tied into Dexterity makes DEX too powerful. Heck, tie it into Speed for all I care!!KillingMoon wrote:Problem with Dexterity perhaps is that it's already a very powerful attribute.IJBall wrote:By the same token, I feel the Dodge skill should also have Dexterity (or Concentration? (or both?!...)) as its supporting Attribute.
I just feel strongly that Dodge should be tied into some Attribute - that way, as with Move Silently, etc., there might be some small increased chance of a melee 'Dodge', perhaps even with no formal skill levels put into 'Dodge' (i.e. with just DEX=10 or CON=10 - or heck! make it DEX=20 or CON=20 instead! - there might still be a 1% chance of a 'Dodge' during melee, even without formally having the Dodge skill). And then Dodge could progress with increased DEX or CON, just as Move Silently now does.
I think this might go a long way towards addressing my complaints about Dodge going back to Book I.
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Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Yep, I also agree that speed would be a good choice to complement dodge.
Re: Dexterity doesn't improve move silently
Ok, back to the topic at hand... I'm concerned that getting 1 effective point of move silent for every 3 dexterity is going to be too strong an influence from dexterity.BasiliskWrangler wrote:I've added Dexterity into Move Silently. Currently, the Skill is about 3x more effective for moving silently than the Dexterity Attribute is- meaning, you still need to focus on the skill to be good, but a very high DEX will give you an edge over less dexterous characters.
I did some quick calcs, and for most builds I might play I'd end up not having to invest points into Move Silently at all. That's partly because the benefit of buffing dexterity will then be so high.
I can train / read book to get the skill to 10, then with base 12 Dex I'm up to 14, buff up to 22, even add a move silent ring or two on top of that and I can walk right past someone without them hearing me - and I haven't spent a point.
I'm thinking 1 effective point of move silent for every 5 dexterity would be balanced just about perfect.
That's my two cents...