Well, i read those topics, i also knew about the OpenAL issue as it's right in the PDF file that comes with it. I DID have the OpenAL stuff, but that ended up not being the issue, that was one of the first things i removed, nor was it firewall, Anitvirus, D3D, or ATI tools. After a few hours of trial and error last night, turned out to be my realtek digital output. After disabling that, restarting, i was able to start the launcher, the audio driver was set to null for some reason, so i set it to DirectSound, and then was able to turn everything that i turned off back on, and now it works fine. Not really sure WHY that was the problem, but whatever, it works now.