My Impressions of Book II and suggestions for Book III

[gackto]

The most major is the trainer system.
I really hope they like my suggestions :>

Although I am too lazy to work out the mechanics behind the skills system and the implied, and most probably, implemented bonuses each attribute will give to a skill I find it odd that a character could learn every skill possible in the game, ( but that doesn't mean to say i don't like knowing every skill in the game)
Perhaps then some trainers could only teach a skill if an attribute assisting in that skill was at a certain level. If i am to learn how to use a bow in real life i need to have the strength to pull it , dexterity so as not to drop it and concentration so as to aim the bloody thing and hit my target. If i had low "attributes" in those perhaps it should then affect my ability to learn the bow past a certain level?

[gackto]

Its probably been said before but one skill I would love to have is fletching!

[staylost]

One character building aspect that I feel could quickly shore up two weak pieces is this: Make Speed a complimentary stat to Dodge.

The simplest way would be to make every 5 Speed starting at a Speed of 10 give the character +3% (or 2%? whatever beta testers recommend) chance to Dodge (with no effect if Dodge is untrained). Because of the possibility for immense stat stacking of Speed and the skill Dodge, make sure Dodge can only allow the player to avoid melee damage, not ranged damage. The shield skill should be the only skill for avoiding ranged damage. (As an aside, I don't understand what the skills levels 2-9 are for in shields.)

I feel this would tie in two island type stats so that they are both more suitable to use.

[Antigrav]

Dodge is another skill that needs to be treated like spot hidden and skullduggery: everyone already has some chance to do it, with the help of attributes.

[IJBall]

One character building aspect that I feel could quickly shore up two weak pieces is this: Make Speed a complimentary stat to Dodge.

Definitely! You and Antigrav aren't the only ones clamoring for this!

The simplest way would be to make every 5 Speed starting at a Speed of 10 give the character +3% (or 2%? whatever beta testers recommend) chance to Dodge (with no effect if Dodge is untrained). Because of the possibility for immense stat stacking of Speed and the skill Dodge, make sure Dodge can only allow the player to avoid melee damage, not ranged damage. The shield skill should be the only skill for avoiding ranged damage. (As an aside, I don't understand what the skills levels 2-9 are for in shields.)

As to your second point, I'm nearly positive that Dodge already operates that way - it's only good in melee combat.

It'll be interesting to see how it'll be handled if Speed complements Dodge in Book III (as it should!) - obviously every +4-5 in SPD (over SPD=10) leading to a 1% increase in Dodge is perhaps too low (though perhaps not...). But I think your suggested formula is probably too much. (For example, even 5% Dodge is pretty decent...)

Anyway, my guess is that, if SPD is set to compliment Dodge in Book III (and I know a number of us are going to be pushing for that! ), I suspect it'll end up being something like every +3-5 Dodge (over SPD=10) will boost your Dodge probability by 1%.

If that's the way it works out, I can definitely live with that.

[Antigrav]

I'd like to see enemies capable of more actions: dodging, more spell use, ranged attacks, hiding in shadows, using light sources, etc.

[staylost]

One character building aspect that I feel could quickly shore up two weak pieces is this: Make Speed a complimentary stat to Dodge.

Definitely! You and Antigrav aren't the only ones clamoring for this!

It'll be interesting to see how it'll be handled if Speed complements Dodge in Book III (as it should!) - obviously every +4-5 in SPD (over SPD=10) leading to a 1% increase in Dodge is perhaps too low (though perhaps not...). But I think your suggested formula is probably too much. (For example, even 5% Dodge is pretty decent...)

Anyway, my guess is that, if SPD is set to compliment Dodge in Book III (and I know a number of us are going to be pushing for that! ), I suspect it'll end up being something like every +3-5 Dodge (over SPD=10) will boost your Dodge probability by 1%.

If that's the way it works out, I can definitely live with that.

The reason I suggest 2 or 3 percent is because it would still be the only attached bonus of speed and because of the the fact that magic and archery can be totally nullified in the game.

With a shield skill of something like 43 I'm relatively immune to arrows. With some meditation and appropriate stats I become relatively immune to all magic direct damage magic. With 99 dodge I become relatively immune to melee. By adding 3% Dodge/5 Speed I still only end up with 39% bonus dodge at 70 Speed. Add that to 60 skill points in Dodge and you've still got an extremely difficult road to walk to reach this same point of relative immunity.

Add to this the fact that armor class serves exactly the same purpose but accomplishes its goal with less point investment (Sorry, the +10% to hit is usually irrelevant to me. If I am a melee fighter I almost always have an extremely high chance to hit, but I am still searching for damage increases.) and you are stuck with a rather useless skill as is or even with my proposed changes.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Speed does also increase the damage you do with melee weapons, though I don't know the specific formula for this. Personally, I think that Dodge should work for melee and ranged weapons, except that ranged attacks are immune to the "off balance" benefit. I want my kung-fu fighter, dammit. I want unarmed parrying and the ability to dodge missile weapons.

Also, for the shield skill, note the interesting occurrence when opponents are in the point-adjacent squares (as opposed to the face-sharing squares). Unless BW fixed that in 1.05.

[staylost]

For me speed adds 1 damage per five starting at ten and 1 armor per five starting at ten.

As BW says, it could potentially be useful for a melee fighter. After I have my wanted END and have enough carrying capacity with STR, I do already pump SPD as a superior STR stat. Still, it is the one stat that is only useful after other prerequisites are built up, and only for one certain build -> the strength melee character.

And this doesn't even mention the natural superiority of a DEX based piercing fighter ((+to hit, + AC, + damage)/5pointsdex) who can easily cast spells wearing the assassin's gloves and Wraithbiter. This character does everything a Speed melee build does and does them better.

Speed needs something to be a viable stat IMO. Dodge too, which is currently nearly useless in the long game as AC does the same thing but works better and doesn't cost skill points.

[Antigrav]

Speed does also increase the damage you do with melee weapons, though I don't know the specific formula for this. Personally, I think that Dodge should work for melee and ranged weapons, except that ranged attacks are immune to the "off balance" benefit. I want my kung-fu fighter, dammit. I want unarmed parrying and the ability to dodge missile weapons.

I am almost certain that my monk, currently with a dodge of 15 or so with one of those Wind Rings, has avoided ranged attacks. I will be sure to capture any evidence if I see it again. It definitely does happen a lot less frequently than vs. melee.

Speed needs something to be a viable stat IMO. Dodge too, which is currently nearly useless in the long game as AC does the same thing but works better and doesn't cost skill points.

I had proposed before that as Speed is a confusing stat (players expecting their character to walk faster than at least some foes) and seems a bit odd when it somehow affects striking speed and therefore power, that we should change it to Agility while keeping Dexterity. Agility would affect hit chance as well as avoidance, and certain other things like moving silently and hiding, while Dexterity would help picking locks and pockets, trap management, throwing, and spellcasting with your hands full. Neither Agility nor Speed would then be a "dead" stat, while making more sense. But that's probably a big enough change to never make the cut for Book III.

[Antigrav]

With a Dodge of 15, this happened a few times per combat, facing two assassins at a time. Possibly even 15%!