The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
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- Captain Magnate
- Posts: 1469
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- Location: Wandering the Rift
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
The ending may explain what has happened in the world and with you,
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
The only consistent truth at the end is that
- helivoy
- Steward
- Posts: 61
- Joined: May 19th, 2010, 6:57 pm
- Location: By the shore of waking dreams
- Contact:
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
If the world is to come to an end regardless of the specific outcome (Erebor or Malkur), going to the Western Lands won't avail you.
For I come from an ardent race
That has subsisted on defiance and visions.
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Starship Reckless
To Seek Out New Life
The Other Half of the Sky
That has subsisted on defiance and visions.
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Starship Reckless
To Seek Out New Life
The Other Half of the Sky
- SpottedShroom
- Captain Magnate
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- MyGameCompany
- Officer [Platinum Rank]
- Posts: 516
- Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 6:56 pm
- Location: Michigan
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I agree PM.
Troy
Former indie game developer
Check out my Book III mods: The Mystery of Rockhammer Mine and Expedition into West Mirkland
Former indie game developer
Check out my Book III mods: The Mystery of Rockhammer Mine and Expedition into West Mirkland
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- Initiate
- Posts: 18
- Joined: February 18th, 2010, 5:18 pm
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I have to admit, I felt very let down by the ending, and indeed by most of the back half of the game (everything after getting through the hidden pass). It felt short and rushed, almost a not-quite-afterthought: the maps didn't seem to have quite the care taken with them that the rest had, it was mostly empty space with a few skirmishes, and the climax itself was about as anticlimactic as a wet firework on Bonfire Night. (Though the encounter with the fellow on the east coast was a sweetly tragic one, and a very nice touch.)
I've enjoyed playing Book III, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I hoped for more. A romp back across the entire world, increasingly bitter fights against old foes (and not just lined up in rows as they were), revisiting old places - and, maybe, that island in Book I that was planned but never implemented... For a series that had such an epic strain, it seemed to go out more with a sigh than a bang. And leaving things on a cliff-hanger?... no, no, no. Admittedly, given the player's actions it's possible to know what's supposed to happen, but since we don't get to see it there are just too many loose ends.
As a game dev myself (in and among) I know it's hard to build a game of this quality and scope with such a small team. But I feel, nonetheless, rather deflated and let down.
I've enjoyed playing Book III, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I hoped for more. A romp back across the entire world, increasingly bitter fights against old foes (and not just lined up in rows as they were), revisiting old places - and, maybe, that island in Book I that was planned but never implemented... For a series that had such an epic strain, it seemed to go out more with a sigh than a bang. And leaving things on a cliff-hanger?... no, no, no. Admittedly, given the player's actions it's possible to know what's supposed to happen, but since we don't get to see it there are just too many loose ends.
As a game dev myself (in and among) I know it's hard to build a game of this quality and scope with such a small team. But I feel, nonetheless, rather deflated and let down.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I do agree that the ending did feel rushed, literally, advancing too quickly.
That said, for me it's not so much about the ending itself (I did like how some things were left ambiguous) but about the game being too short.
That said, for me it's not so much about the ending itself (I did like how some things were left ambiguous) but about the game being too short.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
The ending is quite unusual, in that we don't get the neatly tied-up resolution we might expect.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I don't even know who Malkur is, I just wanted to kill him.
I preferred the ending to Book II, where they said it was nearly impossible to kill all the guys in that last room. So of course I had to do it.
I preferred the ending to Book II, where they said it was nearly impossible to kill all the guys in that last room. So of course I had to do it.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I still think, overall, I still prefer Book I and its ending. You could easily stop the series right there, and consider everything to basically be a triumph with Book I's close.Jaymann wrote:I preferred the ending to Book II, where they said it was nearly impossible to kill all the guys in that last room. So of course I had to do it.
Indeed, that's another jumping off point for future Modding - redo Book I, and then take the story in a totally different direction post-Book I. I think there are a lot of possibilities there...
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
Pretty much every game of this type that I've ever played (and I've played a heck of a lot over 25+ years, starting with text only games on 5" floppies…) has basically the same ending. It goes something like this:
"Congratulations, your valiant efforts have finally saved the world from the Huge Cataclysmically Evil Naughtiness that you've been battling for last few weeks. It's time to tear your eyes from the computer, visit the real world for a day or two, and then start the familiar quest for another half decent game…."
This seemed like an attempt to leave us thinking for a bit longer, and giving us more options, more shades of grey, etc. Unfortunately, we all get plenty of that in real life. So I felt that the multiple endings unfortunately came across as a brave attempt at being different that sadly fell flat on its face. As others have said, the whole final section felt rushed and inclusive - as if the designer(s) couldn't make their mind up about how to wrap it up, so tossed it back to the player.
Every successful story needs a cracking beginning and a good ending. If you're going to be vague, obscure or wishy washy, do it in the middle not at the end!
I feel sure that a more solid conclusion would be a generally popular choice for most gamers.
"Congratulations, your valiant efforts have finally saved the world from the Huge Cataclysmically Evil Naughtiness that you've been battling for last few weeks. It's time to tear your eyes from the computer, visit the real world for a day or two, and then start the familiar quest for another half decent game…."
This seemed like an attempt to leave us thinking for a bit longer, and giving us more options, more shades of grey, etc. Unfortunately, we all get plenty of that in real life. So I felt that the multiple endings unfortunately came across as a brave attempt at being different that sadly fell flat on its face. As others have said, the whole final section felt rushed and inclusive - as if the designer(s) couldn't make their mind up about how to wrap it up, so tossed it back to the player.
Every successful story needs a cracking beginning and a good ending. If you're going to be vague, obscure or wishy washy, do it in the middle not at the end!
I feel sure that a more solid conclusion would be a generally popular choice for most gamers.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
Many players bashed the end of ME3 but myself I found it very good and at least not one of those happy end "you brave hero saved the world get married and have ton of child".
In a way the Eschalon end alos avoid the clichés BUT for me it doesn't works at all. There's two elements not working:
- The first is from a writing perspective and effect of reader/player. The final manipulation explanation is thrown at the end an no clues on it was thrown on it all along the story. It creates the feeling of an artificial end.
- The second is the dual choice just doesn't work well at all. There's clearly an evil side and a good side all along the story and there's many rather concrete elements to reinforce this feeling. And suddenly at end the evil side becomes a good side without anything to explain and justify it. It just doesn't work.
EDIT: Another problem is relative to the main character, he ends without ever knowing his past, and who he was, it's sort of unsatisfying. It fits a requirement of a hero allowing player "rolepay" ie no personality, no story, no history, but it's still unsatisfying.
Apart those problems making the end mostly fails, the final dual choice could have been a good one, and a TV series used the dilema multiple time and in my opinion quite well, it's Smallville where many time the hero has to face an impossibility, should sacrifice someone to save many people or the future but refuse and want find the impossible solution. The game makes you face to the same dilema, save the future and sacrifice all you friends and present world, or save your friends and the present world... and give up. Yeah clearly the Eshalon hero isn't Superman.
In a way the Eschalon end alos avoid the clichés BUT for me it doesn't works at all. There's two elements not working:
- The first is from a writing perspective and effect of reader/player. The final manipulation explanation is thrown at the end an no clues on it was thrown on it all along the story. It creates the feeling of an artificial end.
- The second is the dual choice just doesn't work well at all. There's clearly an evil side and a good side all along the story and there's many rather concrete elements to reinforce this feeling. And suddenly at end the evil side becomes a good side without anything to explain and justify it. It just doesn't work.
EDIT: Another problem is relative to the main character, he ends without ever knowing his past, and who he was, it's sort of unsatisfying. It fits a requirement of a hero allowing player "rolepay" ie no personality, no story, no history, but it's still unsatisfying.
Apart those problems making the end mostly fails, the final dual choice could have been a good one, and a TV series used the dilema multiple time and in my opinion quite well, it's Smallville where many time the hero has to face an impossibility, should sacrifice someone to save many people or the future but refuse and want find the impossible solution. The game makes you face to the same dilema, save the future and sacrifice all you friends and present world, or save your friends and the present world... and give up. Yeah clearly the Eshalon hero isn't Superman.
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
You nailed it there. It felt completely artificial and tacked on. Any sense of a great good or evil, or of a final revelation to a tightly constructed story, simply evaporated leaving it looking all rather lame. More like a piece of pop music that is simply faded out at the end instead of a grand finish to a well constructed symphony. Which was a pity.Palog wrote: It creates the feeling of an artificial end.
It was a good very series with a heck of a lot to recommend it, and good value for money too, so I think it deserved a better conclusion. ( I wonder if it's too late to come up with something better written in a patch?)
Still, can't win 'em all…
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
I disagree. I feel that rather than it being a piece of pop that fades out opposed to the end of a grand symphony, I feel that it's like Holst's The Planet's Jupiter. You never hear the end of a chord progression or segment. Rather, it's left open to allow room for creativity and a different form of intensity.
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- Initiate
- Posts: 18
- Joined: February 18th, 2010, 5:18 pm
Re: The Ending... [Heavy Spoilers]
Actually, Jupiter resolves nicely at the end of the movement, but I do acknowledge there are a couple of sections of it that don't, including the lyric theme that most people recognise.Vroqren wrote:I disagree. I feel that rather than it being a piece of pop that fades out opposed to the end of a grand symphony, I feel that it's like Holst's The Planet's Jupiter. You never hear the end of a chord progression or segment. Rather, it's left open to allow room for creativity and a different form of intensity.
I think that what was done with the story was brave and different, and I'm not criticising Mr Riegsecker for making the attempt. Not at all! I just think it could have been done better.
I think in another thread he mentioned that Malkur's face was seen right at the start of Book I. It probably was, but there are two problems here: first, even with my good memory, I don't remember that (it being years since I played E1), and second, new players who begin with Book III aren't going to know that. If it's a major clue to the actual story, it needed to be played up more.
Oh, I don't know. I've loved these darned games since the day I first played E1. It's so nice, refreshing, to have a little game like this, single-player, turn-based, that does have a good story, that's been put together by someone who has faith in his market and an obvious love for the genre. I'm really looking forward to what's next, I admit.