So, I guess that's it

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Lord_P
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So, I guess that's it

Post by Lord_P » October 27th, 2014, 2:14 am

Hello, all. I haven't been here for a very long while. I don't even recall when I last posted a message on these forums.

One of the biggest things that I was looking forward to was the Book III editor. Seeing it in the promised features section made my heart race. My thoughts were: 'All those plans I have made during the years, finally a chance to make them a reality!' And so I waited. I bought Book III and I enjoyed playing it. I continued to look forward to the editor.

And I waited. But nothing came. Eventually the editor disappeared from the features section. Now it seems that it will never come. I understand it and I accept it, but the fact still leaves me hollow inside.

Thanks for the journey, Basilisk Games, I really liked your games. This will most likely be my last post on these forums. I might drop in from time to time and perhaps return when we hear something from your next project.

Thank you and take care
Lord_P

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by BasiliskWrangler » October 27th, 2014, 9:06 am

Thank YOU, Lord_P, for being a devoted fan and customer.

I wish our plans for Book 3 worked out better, but unfortunately the game just didn't generate as much revenue we had hoped it would. I made another post about this here.

At the end of the day, remember: Basilisk Games is a business with payroll to meet, bills to pay, and taxes due at the end of the year. The Eschalon era was awesome, fulfilling and overall successful, but we need to move on with "what's coming next" to keep the studio functioning.

Please stop back once in a while and hopefully we'll be able to drop some hints about our next RPG sometime in 2015.
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by BasiliskWrangler » October 29th, 2014, 10:48 am

Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:
BasiliskWrangler wrote:I wish our plans for Book 3 worked out better, but unfortunately the game just didn't generate as much revenue we had hoped it would.
And what plans were those? You did several things to hinder the development of any modding tools and you can't put it all down to revenue.
We had hoped Book 3's revenue would have been sufficient to allow us to hire additional people to focus just on Eschalon- to improve our tools for public use in order to build a thriving modder community, and to prepare the trilogy for a re-release with an updated engine (widescreen support, and Book 1 redone in a "Version 3.5" engine). We won't rule this out in the future, but it can't happen right now.

And you are likely to follow up again with "but why not release the source code to X and Y so that they can continue the work?" and the answer is complex, both legally and financially. Rest assured it's been discussed at length and determined to be: "not at this time".
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by Azvael » November 21st, 2014, 5:30 pm

Long time listener, first time caller.

I was thinking about this the other day. This is how I feel about it.

I too was looking forward to an official editor. I too was disappointed when the decision was made to suspend that project. I understand how some people might feel disappointed that the editor wasn't incuded in Book III's release.

On the other hand, I've read BW's explanations regarding this, the unfortunate underperformace of Book III sales, and BW's decision to focus on new projects rather than linger on the Eschalon series. And I get it. I really do. Sometimes a project doesn't pay out like expected, and you've got to make some hard decisions.

Reading between the lines, I think BW is doing exactly what he needs to do. If a project dosen't pan out as expected, you move on. Basilisk Games is a business, competing in an unforgiving market. He's go to do what he's got to do to keep things moving.

Personally, I'd have loved a full editor, and there are more than a few things I don't like about Book I and II (haven't gotten to III yet, replaying the first two in prepartion for III when I have time). These are minor issues for me. The things I don't like are trivial compared to the things I do like. Here are some examples of what I do like:
  • Native Linux support. Seriously, thank you.
  • An excellent overall series. I haven't played III yet, but a friend has, he says it's the best in the series.
  • The fan-made editor is excellent. I don't know how I'd play these games without it. Sure, it's not a full editor, but whatever. I'm grateful for the guys/gals who put it togther.
  • Hours of replayabe gameplay. I've gotten so much enjoyment out of I and II that they've payed for themselves ten time over.
The list goes on and on. The Eschalon series is the standard by which I compare other CRPGs.

There's been a lot of negativity since III. Some of it may be deserved, most of it probably isn't. I don't care either way, for the Web is stupid and full of FUD.

I want BW to keep making great games. I want him to do whatever he has to do to make that happen. As for me, I'm still here, playing his games, and I'll be here for the next game he produces. Honestly, I can't wait. :)

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » November 22nd, 2014, 6:46 am

While the board is quiet and the last two years have overall been rough on the community here, I think we're mostly still happy with the games Thomas has created for us. Niggles aside, these games have given me a sense of fun and adventure that brought me back to cRPGs after many years away.

As they say, haters gonna hate. Let that slide away. It's just mud in the stream.
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by Kreador Freeaxe » November 22nd, 2014, 5:49 pm

Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:Why don't you just say my name and be done with it? :|
I was not actually talking about you, PM. You're not a hater. You actually love the games so much that the fact that they didn't become all that you hoped they would be has you righteously pissed off. I get that.
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by BasiliskWrangler » November 23rd, 2014, 10:13 am

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:
Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:Why don't you just say my name and be done with it? :|
I was not actually talking about you, PM. You're not a hater. You actually love the games so much that the fact that they didn't become all that you hoped they would be has you righteously pissed off. I get that.
As we near Thanksgiving here in the U.S., I reflect on our fans both old and new, and appreciate all you guys have done for Basilisk Games. Prismatic can be upset all he wants, I still love the guy and deeply appreciate all the support he has given us over the years.

I wish Eschalon could have been all everyone expected. We did our best. Yes we- there are artists and additional programmers and alpha testers and beta testes, all of whom contributed to making this trilogy. In the end, the biggest problem was that the engine just couldn't support our goals. I take that blame.

Eschalon is not dead. It continues to sell, and new fans contact me on a regular basis. In time, we may yet see Eschalon reborn/remade into the series it was supposed to be. Or...all the lessons learned from making it will go into making the next RPG that much more incredible.

Thank you all for being part of this with me.
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by Azvael » November 23rd, 2014, 12:24 pm

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:
Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:Why don't you just say my name and be done with it? :|
I was not actually talking about you, PM. You're not a hater. You actually love the games so much that the fact that they didn't become all that you hoped they would be has you righteously pissed off. I get that.
What he said.

When I refer to 'negativity', I'm not specicially refering to PM. I've read PM's posts, and while I may not like the tone (and I don't have to like the tone) I agree with most of his points. The Steam version needed to be updated, the official editor advertisement needed to be removed from the main page, etc. PM isn't a troll. I think he really loves Eschalon, and has done more than I ever will to support it.

I was mostly refering to the Steam community response. I love Steam, but their community isn't really a community, it's mostly a loud mob. Experience has taught me to ignore most of what those folks say.

As for BW's response, I know Basilisk Games isn't dead. I'm looking forward to see what's around the corner.

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by Lord_P » March 7th, 2015, 4:39 am

Alright, this is it. I returned temporarily to give my opinion in the discussion about which is the best Eschalon game, but this is the end.

Thank you, Basilisk Games, for the Eschalon trilogy and the journey through them.

Thank you, fellow forum members, for providing entertaining and intelligent discussions.

Thank you all.

Goodbye.

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by mbrowne » March 7th, 2015, 1:03 pm

Lord_P wrote:One of the biggest things that I was looking forward to was the Book III editor. Seeing it in the promised features section made my heart race. My thoughts were: 'All those plans I have made during the years, finally a chance to make them a reality!' And so I waited. I bought Book III and I enjoyed playing it. I continued to look forward to the editor.

And I waited. But nothing came. Eventually the editor disappeared from the features section. Now it seems that it will never come. I understand it and I accept it, but the fact still leaves me hollow inside.

Lord_P
I was wondering what your thoughts are on Xolotl's editor?

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by SpottedShroom » March 7th, 2015, 8:18 pm

Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:Looking back, it is a shame that xolotl and SpottedShroom didn't get together and release an updated editor without permission from Basilisk Games. If I could code I would have.
If only we could have. It wasn't a permission issue, it was a technical one. There simply weren't enough hooks into the games to make the editor appreciably better than it already is. If BW ever releases source code for the games, we'll see what happens.

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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by BasiliskWrangler » March 8th, 2015, 10:13 am

SpottedShroom wrote:...it was a technical one. There simply weren't enough hooks into the games to make the editor appreciably better than it already is
And that is my problem as well- I never designed the game to be moddable. Yes, I promised the tools, but then I realized that the tools where nearly useless for most people because the game was hard-coded to work a certain way. For a game to be moddable, the core engine needs to be built that way from day 1, not as a afterthought halfway through the second game.

I take full blame. I should not have promised something that I was not even sure I could fully deliver upon.
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Re: So, I guess that's it

Post by mbrowne » March 8th, 2015, 4:17 pm

SpottedShroom wrote:
Prismatic Maelstrom wrote:Looking back, it is a shame that xolotl and SpottedShroom didn't get together and release an updated editor without permission from Basilisk Games. If I could code I would have.
If only we could have. It wasn't a permission issue, it was a technical one. There simply weren't enough hooks into the games to make the editor appreciably better than it already is. If BW ever releases source code for the games, we'll see what happens.
I think what you guys ended up with is very impressive. I still think that a separate forum dedicated to it use, with a couple of pinned posts for DLing the editors and some user guides, would be useful going forward as new players find the games and older players see that the modding is a bit more accessible. Sort of like "build it and they will come." :)

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