Mercantile Skill - HELP!

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AnthonyK
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Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by AnthonyK » September 8th, 2008, 11:07 am

Ok, so, I was bored and started an attempt at a FAQ for the game, one a little more in depth than what's out there and I've come up with a problem. Not knowing how it works is killing me. LoL

I've found that mercantile affects gold in this way...

Selling:

When selling stuff to a vendor, take the value it says it's worth, divide it in half, and add 5% per point (5% of the halved value). That's on an average.

So, say you have 5 points in mercantile, an item worth 650 could be sold to the vendor at about 406.25, assuming the game rounds to the nearest whole number, that would be 406 gold. (650/2 = 325 --> 325 + 25% (81.25) = 406.25)

This formula has worked for me pretty well.

Now where I get burned is buying from a vendor. I know that with zero skill, the item value is doubled, then as you get more Mercantile, the price drops. As for a formula, I'm clueless, it seems to have no "SET" pattern, even though I know there has to be. I can get relatively close, using this formula, but it skews as I get more mercantile skill.

Take the item value, double it, then subtract 2% per Merc level.

Here's some prices I got from some saved games.

Item Cost : 180

0 = 360 (180*2)
1 = 353
2 = 347
5 = 328
10 = 296

This was correct for all of my saved games, so I know there is a formula in there somewhere... Anyone have any idea what the heck it is? Help!

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by The Noid » September 11th, 2008, 6:57 am

Seems to me like price*(2 - 0.0355*merc), rounded down.
so 200% - 3.55% for every level.

But more data points will give a better estimation.

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by AnthonyK » September 11th, 2008, 10:55 pm

The Noid wrote:Seems to me like price*(2 - 0.0355*merc), rounded down.
so 200% - 3.55% for every level.

But more data points will give a better estimation.

I'll post some more data later. I need to make another character and just pump up merc, level by level. I figured this for lvl 20 merc, and it was off a bit. the price was 233, your formula comes out with 232.2. It's close though. :)

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Necromis » September 12th, 2008, 8:00 am

may I suggest, for gathering information only, using ArtMoney. You can simply buy and sell the same item in a store and after each time bump up your mercantile to see the difference at each level. I don't suggest using it for your normal game as that takes the fun out of it. However, when I want to find out the little details of a game I will tweak a character using this program to find out what different things will acomplish. Also is there any possible way that one of the stats effects mercantile? Have you toyed with that idea?
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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by AnthonyK » September 15th, 2008, 3:45 am

Ok, so I got some more data on this. The whole formula is driving me insane. I know there is a logical answer, because the prices ALWAYS come up the same. So there has to be a formula, but for the life of me, I STILL can't figure it out.

Ok, so... at zero mercantile skill, the item value is doubled. We established that.

1st Row: Item Value = 200 @ 400
2nd Row: Item Value = 50 @ 100
3rd Row: Item Value = 150 @ 300

Below are corresponding levels with prices. I wish I could make a table here, but I don't see the option in the BB code.
  1. 392_____98_____294
  2. 385_____96_____289
  3. 378_____94_____284
  4. 371_____92_____278
  5. 364_____91_____273
  6. 357_____89_____268
  7. 350_____87_____263
  8. 343_____85_____257
  9. 336_____84_____252
  10. 329_____82_____247
  11. 322_____80_____242
  12. 315_____78_____236
  13. 308_____77_____231
  14. 301_____75_____226
  15. 294_____73_____221
  16. 287_____71_____215
  17. 280_____70_____210
  18. 273_____68_____205
  19. 266_____66_____200
  20. 259_____64_____194
  21. 252_____63_____189
  22. 245_____61_____184
  23. 238_____59_____179
  24. 231_____57_____173
  25. 224_____56_____168
  26. 217_____54_____163
  27. 210_____52_____158
  28. 203_____50_____152
  29. 197_____49_____147
  30. 190_____47_____142
Let's see if we got any math wizards out there. (I always thought I was good at math too!! LOL)

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Unclever title » September 15th, 2008, 11:33 am

I input the values into a program I used to need for school, now it's still just hanging around cause I never felt like uninstalling it. Fun eh?

It's Graphical Analysis in case you people are interested.

Noid pretty much has it right.

The relationship is linear ( correlation of 1.00 ) that much is clear, makes me wonder if you get your skill high enough if things become free... This would theoretically happen around mercantile 57 or 58. I would highly doubt if the price would start going negative however...

Anyway I graphed all three data sets in GA and compared the formulas given by the linear fit function and the general formula turned out to be something like: (in y = b + mx format)

Price = 2*(Value) - 3.5%*(Value)*(Mercantile skill level)

Now I input this into my graphing calculator and found out this is not quite perfect an estimation, but it will get you the price within a gp or possibly 2 at the most.

For those who want to see the awesome graph.

I looked through the values on my graphing calculator making a table that way and it seems that BW and co didn't use quite the typical rounding scheme, by varying the % from 3.5% to 3.51% I could get all the values to work for the 1st 30 levels by always rounding down for the 100 value column, and this worked to the 28th level for the 200 value column and to the 19th level in the 150 value column. So that's pretty much when I decided I don't want to spend any more time on it, good luck to those who do. :mrgreen:

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Unclever title » September 21st, 2008, 1:11 am

Interesting discovery since I became curious and decided to play a character with mercantile focus. At mercantile 25 buying and selling items to merchants are the same in price. This was very beneficial to learn. It then stands to reason that above 25 one can buy items and then sell them at a marked up price, thus having unlimited funds if you have the patience for it. I'll find out next level up and get back you guys on that with a confirmation one way or the other.

On a side note merchant's are difficult to get good at fighting especially early in the game (if you focus all your skill points into mercantile that is.)

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by IJBall » September 21st, 2008, 7:55 pm

I was considering this thread the other day, and I was thinking that a "Merchant" class character would be an interesting addition to Book II. (Maybe playing that class would allow you buy/sell goods to other non-merchant NPC's in the game!)

If Book II goes with a Merchant class, I think I'll try to play one. :)

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Unclever title » September 22nd, 2008, 10:22 pm

Well I confirmed it. Got my skill to 27 (then purchased a convenient +3 Mercantile amulet so my skill is effectively 30) and it works. :mrgreen:

I can buy items cheaper than their value and sell them higher than their value, and not only that I can successfully, every time mark up the prices of the items I sell (admittedly only at a fixed rate determined by the game mechanics). So technically I can buy an item (preferably a high cost one) and sell and rebuy and resell and rerebuy and so on until the NPC is unable to buy my items anymore due to not having enough money. So I funds limited only by the Thaermore economy.

What? Don't look at me like that! Somebody's got to profit off this war... :mrgreen: I don't know it's wonderfully surreal, I'm going to go for an ungodly sum of money by the end of the game. It is unrealistic but then again how often are players going to exploit this particular mechanic? Plus like I said it was quite challenging in the beginning, still is somewhat in terms of not dying, but having buff spells (thanks to purchased skills and spells) does make living a little easier.

Currently after just one round of sapping the NPC's funds:

Image

Started my crazo-nomics at about 4500 gp so that's an increase of over 10,000 and it was ridiculously easy. Only problem is that there's pretty much nothing to do with this insane amount of money. I would suggest Book II to remedy this... somehow... maybe buy your own homes? Or small nations?

One thing I would most definitely suggest is calculating mercantile skill for NPC sellers, this would make an added challenge for a merchant-like character/class. Oh and the possibility of bribing (NPCs) and robbery (of the PC).

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Eschalonian » September 23rd, 2008, 3:22 pm

It is a complete waste of skill points. This is one "mechanic" that people won't bother to exploit. Even without any point in this skill, except those gained from the book and the trainer, I always drain the merchants' funds as soon as they get refilled. Being able to make a profit does you no good if the merchant runs out of money and can't buy from you.

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Unclever title » September 23rd, 2008, 7:26 pm

Eschalonian wrote:It is a complete waste of skill points. This is one "mechanic" that people won't bother to exploit. Even without any point in this skill, except those gained from the book and the trainer, I always drain the merchants' funds as soon as they get refilled. Being able to make a profit does you no good if the merchant runs out of money and can't buy from you.
I seemed to have exploited it, and plan on exploiting it further. And is there a mercantile trainer? I never found him.

You're right though it is a complete waste of skill points, especially in Book I (Book II who can say yet?), but it's still pretty funny to find out that in Eschalon you can get clever enough in sales to cause (what would be in reality) a great depression in your wake. That's why I was suggesting something about having large sums of money be use-able (not necessarily useful) in Book II. Not necessarily for any added plot or realism per say but just for the heck of it.

Which is the entire reason I made this character in the first place, that and curiosity.

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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Necromis » September 24th, 2008, 7:50 am

I think you hit on a great suggestion for Book II. If the NPCs have a mercantile skill it could be used in challenge to your skill. Say you have a 25 skill and the merchant has a 20 skill. You would end up having a modified skill of 5. This would make it a chanllenge based on region and how far into the game you are.
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Re: Mercantile Skill - HELP!

Post by Unclever title » September 24th, 2008, 9:17 pm

End screens! To show off my monies.

Cowardly End

Obviously this one had a significant boost.

Good/Destroyer End

Not bad for all gained on my own I must say.

These numbers are of course attainable normally through patience, but this was more fun. :mrgreen:

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