Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

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Impish
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Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by Impish » May 13th, 2013, 9:52 pm

Is this the case or was I playing extremely wrong. Spells kill very fast, but mana takes forever to recharge, even when specialized in Perception. Are they god like end game or what? I don't understand why every single RPG known to man has to have magic users be complete trash in the beginning.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by SpottedShroom » May 15th, 2013, 1:40 pm

Yes, spellcaster is one of the toughest builds early in the game. The good news is that the Wisdom and Intelligence requirements for learning spells are lower than in Book II, so you can put more points into Perception. And actually, they're probably strongest in the midgame - by the end, the max mana regen of 1 per round hurts.

For best results, I'd recommend the Drudic axiom and literally putting every single stat point into Perception until you get to 38, which gives you the maximum benefit.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by IJBall » May 15th, 2013, 2:20 pm

SpottedShroom wrote:For best results, I'd recommend the Drudic axiom and literally putting every single stat point into Perception until you get to 38, which gives you the maximum benefit.
PER=40 is better than PER=38 - MP regeneration may "max out" at PER=38, but PER=40 gets you an additional 1 MP on every Level-Up.

However, I do mostly agree with you on the choice of Druidic axiom - that will hurt you later in Dungeons, but it does help a lot with MP regeneration when you're "out of doors" early in the game. (I think I've also played Book I with a non-Druidic Mage, and didn't have any problems, but that was after I had played through Book I several times...)

However, let me just say that I am a "dissenter" on the "Mages are so hard to play..." issue, even in Book I - once I realized that you just needed to start the game with PER=30 or so for Mage builds, I have tended to find the game a relative breeze as a Mage. If you start out with PER=30, you only need to get to Level 3-4 before you can 'max out' with PER=40, and you can easily end up with 200+ MPs by Levels 10-12 or so.

I really never had the trouble with the Mage build that so many other people reported. FWIW...

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by Randomizer » May 15th, 2013, 2:41 pm

Mage build is easier at the start because you can always hit. Fighter builds can easily miss and range attackers are always running out of arrows at the start just like mages needing mana.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by Lord_P » May 16th, 2013, 7:15 am

SpottedShroom wrote:Yes, spellcaster is one of the toughest builds early in the game. The good news is that the Wisdom and Intelligence requirements for learning spells are lower than in Book II, so you can put more points into Perception. And actually, they're probably strongest in the midgame - by the end, the max mana regen of 1 per round hurts.

For best results, I'd recommend the Drudic axiom and literally putting every single stat point into Perception until you get to 38, which gives you the maximum benefit.
IJBall wrote:
SpottedShroom wrote:For best results, I'd recommend the Drudic axiom and literally putting every single stat point into Perception until you get to 38, which gives you the maximum benefit.
PER=40 is better than PER=38 - MP regeneration may "max out" at PER=38, but PER=40 gets you an additional 1 MP on every Level-Up.

However, I do mostly agree with you on the choice of Druidic axiom - that will hurt you later in Dungeons, but it does help a lot with MP regeneration when you're "out of doors" early in the game. (I think I've also played Book I with a non-Druidic Mage, and didn't have any problems, but that was after I had played through Book I several times...)

However, let me just say that I am a "dissenter" on the "Mages are so hard to play..." issue, even in Book I - once I realized that you just needed to start the game with PER=30 or so for Mage builds, I have tended to find the game a relative breeze as a Mage. If you start out with PER=30, you only need to get to Level 3-4 before you can 'max out' with PER=40, and you can easily end up with 200+ MPs by Levels 10-12 or so.

I really never had the trouble with the Mage build that so many other people reported. FWIW...
Is this all true in Book II as well? What are the differences if there are any?

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by SpottedShroom » May 16th, 2013, 10:46 am

Lord_P wrote: Is this all true in Book II as well? What are the differences if there are any?
In Book II, mana regeneration isn't capped, so you can keep pumping Perception as long as you like. I typically aim for 5 MP/second regeneration at Perception 70 by the end of the game. Of course, you also need higher Intelligence/Wisdom to learn spells in Book II, but there are lots of stat-boosting items around.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by Lord_P » May 17th, 2013, 7:44 am

What is the int/wis you need to lean all the useful spells in Book II? I know that I'm kind of derailing the topic, but I want to know.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by Painted Lady » May 17th, 2013, 9:33 am

I found this posting:


Hello,

I just tested this: you need INT/WIS 20 to read tier 3 elemental/divine spells, this is true. However, you do not need int/wis to cast them - you only need the magick skill itself at 11 to cast tier 3 spells at level 1 and 31 to cast T3L6 spells.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by SpottedShroom » May 17th, 2013, 11:05 am

Lord_P wrote:What is the int/wis you need to lean all the useful spells in Book II? I know that I'm kind of derailing the topic, but I want to know.
The answers to most nuts and bolts mechanics questions like this are on this wikia site:

http://eschalon.wikia.com/wiki/Ability_ ... telligence

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by noname » October 23rd, 2013, 2:26 pm

Yes, very terrible. After playing book 2 using every kind of character there is I thought I would go back and try a pure mage in book 1. After reading everything on this forum my question is: Where is the first offensive spell you can get? Aridel has none and Bordertown has none and I can't survive to get to Blackwater. A pure mage is helpless without flame dart or something. I used unarmed for a while but that won't get me to Blackwater. I even started the game over severl times to see if the spells sold in the store change and they don't. In book 2 at least you start out with something regardless of your class. What am I missing? Sorry to revive an old thread but book 1 is an old game.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by noname » October 23rd, 2013, 6:35 pm

Thank you, I knew it would be something simple to make me feel stupid. I never really played book 1 very much, I just couldn't get interested in it as I did book 2. I certainly never finished it. I'll give it a try now while waiting for BOOK III. It's bound to be the best of the three books.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by noname » November 4th, 2013, 3:58 pm

Boring---- Mage in book 1 is just boring once you reach your perception cap. But In book 2 the Mage is the most powerful build and easiest to win with. I know which is more fun. Caps on anything just severely limit the possibilities and enjoyment. I'm now using a very buffed fighter and am very frustrated by being stuck in the goblin citidel.Looks like I still won't be able to finish the game.

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Re: Magick Users Terrible Early Game?

Post by rikus » March 10th, 2014, 6:01 am

I've finished all books(1-3) as warrior. started playing as mage in book1 and without the hint of the tree stump, i wouldn't know how to overcome even bandits. so thanks :)

warrior are tough to play, but there are lots of ways to manipulate the enemy, such as attacking from a darker point, and crowd controlling by narrow passes.

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