Are YOU a PIRATE?

Ask questions, share hints or chat in general about Eschalon: Book I.
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BasiliskWrangler
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Are YOU a PIRATE?

Post by BasiliskWrangler » December 4th, 2007, 12:13 pm

I am very pleased to see how well Book I has been received, however when I look at the visitor stats, I see that several pirate sites are now the highest forwarders to Basilisk Games.

If you're playing a pirated copy of the game- hey, there is probably no one here who has not copied a game or CD before. However, we need the sales. We are not a huge developer with deep pockets that can afford a few thousand missing sales. Every single lost sale affects us.

If you are playing a pirated copy of Eschalon and you really enjoy it, please just go to the purchase page and show your support. Show us that you enjoy what we've made and that you want to see Book II. Right now, every single sale makes a difference. Your single purchase can change the course of the series because Book II will only get made if Book I can pay for itself. We can not begin making a second game when we are still paying the debt from the first one. Thank you for your support.

-= BasiliskWrangler =-
Last edited by BasiliskWrangler on December 4th, 2007, 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Necromis
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Post by Necromis » December 4th, 2007, 12:37 pm

I personally do just that. I normally find I don't get enough emersion in a game with some of the Demos so I look to see if I can find the game else where, first. Then once I get to try the game more fully I decide if I like it. If it is something I will enjoy I then go and purchase the game, as I did Book I. If I don't like it I simply delete it and move on. I do the same with music. I will download songs to see if I like the album and if so I will then buy the CD. Still I do burn my own CDs from the old days. After all I bought the song before, why would I need to buy it again to put it from tape/record, to CD?

So like BW has said, if you like it support it. IF you didn't delete it. Don't cheat these guys outa the money they deserve for a great game.
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Post by dak » December 4th, 2007, 1:33 pm

I think the new demo should be enough to show off the game.... anyway BasiliskWrangler did you ever consider anything about copy protection? I think a better idea would be to give some award to the people who bought the game, along with the download give some unique key, and each person with a key can get accses to extra goodies and a special forum or some such, if you have the funds to do it! + we will all know who on the forum bought the game, if they have this mark game owner... if they don't have it we can ignore their questions and suggestions!

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Post by Necromis » December 4th, 2007, 1:41 pm

Dak he already said he didn't want to spend the extra time and money to make it more *secure* as that would have caused more expense and delayed the release even longer. Secondly, I doubt he wants to alienate prospective customers by saying who can and cannot be on the forums. After all your idea would mean that anyone that downloaded the Demo could not get talked to on the forum either.

I agree a simple registration with the email address of the purchaser might be an easy way of enhanced security without any added issues. Possibly a combination of key and email address. Where you get the key at download and once that key is registered to a given email address cannot be used again.

Though even this simple change would be a lot of work, so maybe just disregard taht aspect of my email. LOL :wink:
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Post by tungprc » December 4th, 2007, 1:43 pm

I'd be curious to know how many forum members you have vs. how many registrations :) Hopefully the percentage is high.

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Post by quasius » December 4th, 2007, 1:43 pm

dak wrote:I think the new demo should be enough to show off the game.... anyway BasiliskWrangler did you ever consider anything about copy protection? I think a better idea would be to give some award to the people who bought the game, along with the download give some unique key, and each person with a key can get accses to extra goodies and a special forum or some such, if you have the funds to do it! + we will all know who on the forum bought the game, if they have this mark game owner... if they don't have it we can ignore their questions and suggestions!
That would totally work... if it made any sense.
Hey guys! Let's make super secret content not for pirates. They probably won't even find it, but if they do I bet they'll fell real guilty about it!
I actually applaud Basilisk Games for giving non-gimped (non copy-protected) versions to paying customers. A serial number is not particularly annoying but not particularly effective for single-player games. Anything more invasive than that and I start not wanting to buy the product.

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Post by quasius » December 4th, 2007, 1:46 pm

Necromis wrote: I agree a simple registration with the email address of the purchaser might be an easy way of enhanced security without any added issues. Possibly a combination of key and email address. Where you get the key at download and once that key is registered to a given email address cannot be used again.
Do you have any idea how easy it is to hack something like that out of an executable? It would only cause paying customers to jump through hoops and be a waste of his time to implement it.

Edit for something constructive:
Efforts like this to appeal to people's sensibilities are probably the best you can do and I'm sure it has some effect. But getting into an arms-race with pirates is retarded.

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Post by Necromis » December 4th, 2007, 1:52 pm

quasius, to be honest any security measure in any system is beatable by hackers/programmers. Also as I said, really probably just easier to disregard my suggestions of security on the program. I only suggested something simple as a means off keeping *buddies* from passing it around, or just tossing it out on a torrent site. If someone is looking to rip a game apart and put it on warez sites or other pirate areas they will do it. It is all dependant on the draw of the game. Have to say that since it is already out there that it must be popular enough to warrant some one doing that. So in that regard BW you have to look at your game as a sucess.
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quasius
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Post by quasius » December 4th, 2007, 1:57 pm

Necromis wrote:quasius, to be honest any security measure in any system is beatable by hackers/programmers. Also as I said, really probably just easier to disregard my suggestions of security on the program. I only suggested something simple as a means off keeping *buddies* from passing it around, or just tossing it out on a torrent site. If someone is looking to rip a game apart and put it on warez sites or other pirate areas they will do it. It is all dependant on the draw of the game. Have to say that since it is already out there that it must be popular enough to warrant some one doing that. So in that regard BW you have to look at your game as a sucess.
Then you'd need some kind of system to allow people to legitimately uninstall the game and lend/give it to a buddy. Ask 2kGames how well that went over with Bioshock...

Edit: The only reasonably effective security methods involve phoning up some kind of validation server. And as soon as I'm dependent on some remote entity existing to play the game I paid for, I get very suspicious.

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Post by PhilosophiX » December 4th, 2007, 3:07 pm

Actually DRM is very easily stripped, and it is only the legitimate users suffer. But, I think Basilisk have gone the right way by relying on good old common decency and trust. There's a company called Baen books which publishes sci-fi novels, and faced this very same choice when moving into the digital market place; DRM or not? They chose not only to shun DMR, but gave their authors the choice, to put some of their books online for free. People told them they were crazy, but Baen suggested that it would pay off, that their customers are above all honest people who could be trusted, and who would appreciate not being treated like criminals. Funnily enough, Baen are doing extremely well! Compare that with the music industry which is in a grand mess of its own devising because of all the DRM they've been slapping on CDs.

I'm very happy giving Basilisk Games my money, because of that trust, and because they aren't evil! Trust is mutual.
What is a man, If his chief good and market of his time Be but to sleep and feed? a beast, no more. Sure, he that made us with such large discourse, Looking before and after, gave us not that capability and god-like reason to fust in us unused.

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Post by dak » December 4th, 2007, 3:14 pm

Hey guys! Let's make super secret content not for pirates. They probably won't even find it, but if they do I bet they'll fell real guilty about it!
You got me wrong, there'd be a forum especially for game owners, there can still be a forum to support the demo! + you get to see who bought the game in the forum, that way the pirates would at least not ask about thing in the game not included in the demo + you can show that you are a proud support of the game.

As for implementing it, it is very easy, when a game is bought the registration code is reported to Basilisk games, and the user also gets the same registration code, user enters registration code on basilisk website, basilisk check if the code matches the one they have recieved voila a registered game owner. NOTE that I am not suggesting anyone who doesn't want to bother should be prevented from buying or playing the game!!

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Post by PhilosophiX » December 4th, 2007, 3:38 pm

dak wrote:
Hey guys! Let's make super secret content not for pirates. They probably won't even find it, but if they do I bet they'll fell real guilty about it!
You got me wrong, there'd be a forum especially for game owners, there can still be a forum to support the demo! + you get to see who bought the game in the forum, that way the pirates would at least not ask about thing in the game not included in the demo + you can show that you are a proud support of the game.

As for implementing it, it is very easy, when a game is bought the registration code is reported to Basilisk games, and the user also gets the same registration code, user enters registration code on basilisk website, basilisk check if the code matches the one they have recieved voila a registered game owner. NOTE that I am not suggesting anyone who doesn't want to bother should be prevented from buying or playing the game!!
What's the point of that? It's the legitimate users that have to monkey about with the DRM and the pirates who are installing it any pressing enter to skip the DRM. So who suffers? I would imagine anyone keen enough to be here in the forum, also cares enough to pay, because Book I is worth it, and Book II will be even better, and Basilisk Wrangler and the team need to eat, you know?
What is a man, If his chief good and market of his time Be but to sleep and feed? a beast, no more. Sure, he that made us with such large discourse, Looking before and after, gave us not that capability and god-like reason to fust in us unused.

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Post by Rollor » December 4th, 2007, 3:43 pm

No copy protection ftw!! Either it doesn't work at all or it's us who payed who has to suffer with it :/

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Post by BasiliskWrangler » December 4th, 2007, 3:59 pm

There will never be copy protection on our game(s). It doesn't work, so I'm not messing with it.

Look, the point to this thread was that we have an extremely high number of visitors to the site and relatively few sales to justify this traffic. I just want people to know that unlike EA or Activision, losing even 500 sales can kill Basilisk Games. :cry:

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Post by macdude22 » December 4th, 2007, 4:08 pm

I'm just going to chime in with the obligatory ARRRRRRRRRRR.

I'd expect a good jump of sales for the Mac version, we're a clean people hungry for RPG's.

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