Dragon Age: Origins

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Arkos
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Arkos »

So it seems that your main problem with DA:O is that it had too much combat? Now I must admit, I am insanely curious. What RPGs have you been playing? Pretty much every RPG I've ever played, whether Western or Eastern; AAA mainstream or simple indie, has been 90% combat: Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, Eschalon, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, etc.

And most of the battles are mindless fights with minor mooks that play no significant role in the story, but only serve to provide XP and loot for the party (or hero, if there's no party system).

Actually, I've heard you can play Planescape Torment all the way through without a single battle. I haven't tried it yet myself, so I can't verify that, though.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Javolenus »

The point I'm trying to make is that games like DA:O are marketed as if character development, story, dialogue, choices etc. are the game's 'meat', but really it's just about combat. As you rightly point out, that's what occupies you for 90 per cent of the time. But I had to buy the game, install it, and play it to find out . . .
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Axiom »

It's nice to see I am not the only one who thinks Bioware cant write a decent story any more to save their life.

Makes me wonder if they hired George Lucas as a plot consultant since personally I found the plots in Mass effect 1 and 2 as well as Dragon Age 1 and 2 to be as filled with as much angst, pain and forced as me on the toilet after eat an entire block of cheddar cheese.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Javolenus »

Mmm, maybe I should go back to DA:O when I've picked up more experience with other rpgs and try to stick with it longer. I probably gave up too soon.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Evnissyen »

Well... my impression has always been that BioWare has been lauded for its stories and characters mostly in comparison with not just other big-selling developers but also RPGs in general.

RPGs, typically, really do not seem to be strongly focused on story and character, the two things that interest me most. In defense of Bioware: NwN2 and MotB had very good characters and storylines. Even DA:O had good character, character acting and a decent storyline, narrative and story immersion. I have strong doubts about DA2, after playing the demo all the way through. Typically, BioWare opening sequences focus on story-immersion, followed by battle. Here, you have battle all the way through, with just the barest reference to storyline . . . which doesn't look good at all.

I said in a post a few days ago that all it takes is a staff change at the top to change everything. Anybody know of any big staff shifts at BioWare since the first DA?
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Arkos
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Arkos »

Evnissyen wrote:I said in a post a few days ago that all it takes is a staff change at the top to change everything. Anybody know of any big staff shifts at BioWare since the first DA?
Yep. Bioware started work on DAO before EA bought them out, and started on DA2 afterward.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Evnissyen »

Arkos wrote:
Evnissyen wrote:I said in a post a few days ago that all it takes is a staff change at the top to change everything. Anybody know of any big staff shifts at BioWare since the first DA?
Yep. Bioware started work on DAO before EA bought them out, and started on DA2 afterward.
Damn... .

I just checked the Wiki page on EA to get the details... BioWare was bought out in 2007. I didn't know... .

Sigh... .
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by KillingMoon »

I was shopping in Edinburgh last week and saw this game there for £8, so I got it and it turns out I'm enjoying it. * I'm too lazy to look up what £8 would make in other types of coin, but for comparison, a beer in the pub was £3,50.

I've never played a game that was made after NeverWinterNights 1 - apart from Eschalon - and I'm suspicious about those modern games with all their visuals and special effects, but I can see the evolution now.
  • Interface - works for me, I can find everything easily and nothing gets in the way of the action screen.
  • Camera - good. NWN 1 had three different angles where you could switch between and still you often didn't get a good view, Dragon Age Origins is a lot better and smoother.
  • Party control - much beter control of party members than in NWN 1.
  • Visuals - I'm sceptic of 3D, as I've seen some games with blocky and basic 3D artwork and awkward camera control, and then I rather have 2D, but I can see the light now; they've created some beautiful landscapes and towns here.
Although I'm not usually playing these kind of games I'm not stumbling over a lot of issues; not with the controls and also not with the plot and with quests. I rarely pick up a game that I can just play like that, so I'm finding Dragon Age a pleasant surprise in this respect.

Of course there are some things that I'm not so keen on.
  • The blood - I've turned off the excessive gore pretty soon, then still I'm seeing it a little too much of it for my liking.
  • Bombastic music - like from a 1950's warmovie in the final battle, but then all the time - I've turned it off.
  • All those 'Codexes' - popping up all the time and gathering in an ever-expanding inventory of notes. The idea is probably to satisfy players that want to know more about the gameworld they're playing in, but I find this getting in the way of gameplay.
In the game I'm now in the Mage's Tower, in a nightmare-ish episode. It is a really interesting part of the game. Kreador Freeaxe posted it was his favourite part of the game, and I can see why.
It also has the advantage that, now my character is alone, I can much better see what her special weapon tactics are doing. When they were all fighting in a heap I missed a lot.

The battle play is well done. I'm playing on normal difficulty, but I have to concentrate on playing tactically well, otherwise I lose units.

It's a very polished game where they don't seem to have cut corners in the design. For me not every game needs to be a big production like this. Good artists can make a good game with lesser means, but it's easy to see they had skilled people making this game and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Evnissyen »

I like the village in the mountains, what is it called... can't remember. But it really was given light attention... I sort of have the feeling that one or two of the writers were intending to do a lot more with it but the material was cut... at any rate, it's what it feels like.

I think my favorite BioWare game in terms of writing alone would have to be Mask of the Betrayer, from the NwN2 catalog. But... I've really only played a few of their games.

It's sad to see this happen to them, but I guess it was sort of inevitable.
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Kreador Freeaxe »

Haven, I think you mean. That was an interesting section. Also, if you had any of the bonus content, the town with the Golem is interesting.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

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Evnissyen wrote:I like the village in the mountains, what is it called... can't remember. But it really was given light attention... I sort of have the feeling that one or two of the writers were intending to do a lot more with it but the material was cut... at any rate, it's what it feels like.
I've now played through 20% of the game, and I'm beginning to see your point.
The game is nicely produced, characters and environments are well presented, but underneath is a plot that's not so inspired. Gather troops, kill the bad guys... Quests are very standard as well; go fetch-kill-loot-return. It's all pretty basic stuff.

I've read some reviews about this game, and I think this is the one I most agree with: http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/9694 ... igins.html
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Evnissyen »

Yeah, the plot and narrative thread are really not too exciting or interesting. They borrowed a lot from The Witcher, too. But, then again... there really aren't very many games at all, it seems to me, with exciting and interesting and original plots.

Thanks for that link, by the way. I agree with that review, too. I also hadn't really thought too much, before, about the positive aspects of the way they managed the class system... I just remember initially feeling disappointed at the limitations. And for some reason: later on I really hadn't been more than just somewhat interested in the class variations, which only offered four extra abilities a piece.
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by noname »

I played Dragon age through to the end, which is not common with me, and didn't even notice most of those things you are complaining about. Honestly, you should just try to enjoy a game instead of picking it to pieces.Hmmm.. but then again, having read many of your posts, maybe that is how you DO enjoy a game. That's OK, you make interesting reading. Thanks.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Evnissyen »

Noname: Hell, if there were no critical players around, there'd be no interesting games. What's wrong with KillingMoon wanting a game to be better than it is? Some people are interested in more than just base entertainment, eager to soak up whatever they're given.

Anyhow... KillingMoon: you might find this helpful:

http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/

£8 = $13.08
...or €9.14159265358...

£3.5 = $5.72 . . . that's an expensive beer. You sure that's not a pitcher?
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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Re: Dragon Age: Origins

Post by Kreador Freeaxe »

You've never been to a bar with $6 beers, Evnissyen? Hell, go into Manhattan and you can pay $15 and they short you on the beer. ;-)

On the other point, though, yes, people wanting more out of games drives the artform in different directions (and yes I called it an artform--it is no matter what Ebert thinks).
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