Infinite exp - maybe not bug but intersting thing (spoiler)

[bezimek]

I. Where:

Map name: Central Tangletree Forest
Location: X= 88 , Y= 186

II . What to do:

1. Open chest (X= 88 , Y= 186)
2. Close chest
3. Go to X= 87 , Y= 142
4. Kill Hive Drones
5. Open chest ( X= 88 , Y= 186 )
6. Close chest
etc
...

Summary:

For every close chest (X= 88 , Y= 186) 4 hive drone will appear . If you fill lucky open and close chest for about 5 times and fight in open area

btw. IMHO Hive Drones attack should have poisonous effect.

[BasiliskWrangler]

That looks like a bad script. Fixed in next update.

[PhilosophiX]

btw. IMHO Hive Drones attack should have poisonous effect.

That wouldn't make sense... bees aren't poisonous, they just have a particular acidic compound on the stinger so that it hurts like hell when they do sting, but a sting isn't poison. Sure it can seem that way if an individual is allergic to bee stings, but then some people are allergic to nuts, and my wife is allergic to milk! I rather like the fact that the bees aren't poisonous in Eschalon when most games make the mistake of making them so.

[JOG]

btw. IMHO Hive Drones attack should have poisonous effect.

That wouldn't make sense... bees aren't poisonous, they just have a particular acidic compound on the stinger so that it hurts like hell when they do sting, but a sting isn't poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apitoxin

[Necromis]

Hmm, obviously there is a toxic level to what the bee stinger pumps into you. Or maybe you have never seen a bee's stinger after it has been left in. It still pumps whatever toxin is in the sack into the wound. Also this is why people die from Killer bee attackes. Multiple injections of poision/acid. I would think that a much larger bee would be more posinious than a little bee. Wouldn't you agree?

[bezimek]

Hmm, obviously there is a toxic level to what the bee stinger pumps into you. Or maybe you have never seen a bee's stinger after it has been left in. It still pumps whatever toxin is in the sack into the wound. Also this is why people die from Killer bee attackes. Multiple injections of poision/acid. I would think that a much larger bee would be more posinious than a little bee. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, you are of course right.

Hive Drones are very easy enemies. IMHO adding poison effect to they attacks will make them more deadly.

[PhilosophiX]

btw. IMHO Hive Drones attack should have poisonous effect.

That wouldn't make sense... bees aren't poisonous, they just have a particular acidic compound on the stinger so that it hurts like hell when they do sting, but a sting isn't poison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apitoxin

That's cute, but:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 093716.htm

[PhilosophiX]

I didn't say bees weren't poisonous at all, I said they weren't poisonous to humans unless we have an allergy. Even oxygen is poisonous to humans, so go look that one up in wikipedia! The point is there are many creatures that are poisonous, it is a common adaption against predation, however what is deadly to a mouse is not necessarily deadly to the human.

It's a game we are talking about here, and niggling little details are not as useful as sweeping generalizations when deciding to do something one way or another. If you want to get into a scientific debate, feel free, the link above illustrates that giant insects are impossible anyway due to the way Tracheal Breathing works. The science of it is really too stupid to get into, we're not talking science fiction here!

So the point is not whether bees are poisonous, oxygen is also poisonous, milk is poisonous to my wife, nuts are poisonous to some people - the point is whether bees are poisonous to humans, and in a sweeping generalization we can say no, not unless someone has an allergy to bee stings.

But the whole point of the quest was that Lylith couldn't do it because she is allergic to bees, and if you make them all poisonous it weakens her motivations for giving you that quest. She strikes me as the kind of person who would have killed them all by now had it not been for that factor.

And yes, I've been stung. If you're not allergic to bee stings then it's not that big of a deal. Compare that to snake bites and spider bites (assuming they are poisonous) and you can see the qualitative difference.

[Dragonlady]

Are you sure these are bees? I thought they were wasps/hornets. Bees die once they hit you with the stinger.

As for spider bites, they can be just as bad as poisonous ones. I ought to know. I got bitten on the inside of my lip by one. How did it get in my mouth? It had climbed into my can of soda when I wasn't looking, took a swig and felt something moving so I spit it out. It bit me on the way out. Ordinary garden variety of spider. My lip swelled up and cheek so bad had to go to ER. Took 2 weeks for that swelling to go down and I still have a tiny scar on my lip.

[bezimek]

PhilosophiX you are missing the point. We have two enemies:
- one which do normal physical damage
- second which do little physical damage but have two special attack, it can slow you down ( makes you easier to hit) and blind you ( you can`t attack for 1 to 3 rounds)

Now, tell me this - which enemy is more dangerous ? and which enemy is more unpredictable ?

Combat in Eschalon is boring not because it have bad rules. It is boring because most enemies ( almost all) don`t have special abilities and they are predictable .

Now for instance ( for instance only !!) "slimes" we can give them :

a) normal attacks
- normal short range physical damage attack ( up to 4 spaces)
- normal close range physical damage attack ( up to 1 space)

b) special abilities

- short range attack only:
"acid blind" - blind player for 1 to 2 rounds, player can attack but receive - 10 to hit
"pool of acid" - immobilize player for 1 to 2 rounds, player can`t move but can attack, player ac receive - 4 point bonus

- close range attack only:
"cover with acid" - 1 to 5 hp damage for 2 to 4 rounds)
"acid splash" - + 5 hp damage to player from this attack

Beloved Hive drones:

a) normal attacks
- normal close range physical damage attack ( up to 1 space)

b) special abilities

- close range attack only:
"poison sting" - 3 damage for 2 to 12 rounds to player
"revenge of hive" - 10 to 30 hp damage to player but kill hive drone, hive drone must have 25 % or less hp and must spend one round of combat to prepare this attack, attack have normal chance ( same as physical attack) to hit + 5 point.

[PhilosophiX]

I'm not missing the point. As far as I'm concerned poisonous Hive Drones makes about as much sense as poisonous badgers. Anything else is beyond the scope of my interest in this discussion. Enemies that attack in a number of ways would be good. Burdening Hive Drones with poisoning as the panacea for what you perceive as a dearth of gameplay is your choice. I would regard it as something to look forward to in the next game. Basilisk now have the first game out their which will help them in extending everything, from playing area, gameplay, races classes, through to baddies and their attacks - in the next installment.

[PhilosophiX]

Are you sure these are bees? I thought they were wasps/hornets. Bees die once they hit you with the stinger.

As for spider bites, they can be just as bad as poisonous ones. I ought to know. I got bitten on the inside of my lip by one. How did it get in my mouth? It had climbed into my can of soda when I wasn't looking, took a swig and felt something moving so I spit it out. It bit me on the way out. Ordinary garden variety of spider. My lip swelled up and cheek so bad had to go to ER. Took 2 weeks for that swelling to go down and I still have a tiny scar on my lip.

Sorry dragon lady, they are wasps, it's just I think of wasps and hornets as being a subset of bees (as in I learned about bees first as a child).

Ouch, that must have hurt.

[BasiliskWrangler]

It had climbed into my can of soda when I wasn't looking...

:shudders: That is one of the most nightmarish stories I have ever read. I am never again drinking from a soda can after it has been set down.

[JOG]

I'm not missing the point. As far as I'm concerned poisonous Hive Drones makes about as much sense as poisonous badgers.

Of course. Badgers aren't poisonous, neither are bees, but since nobody wanted that you die from eating a giant-bee corpse, we're talking about venomous animals here, and bees belong to that class just like a black widow or a rattlesnake.

Badgers don't use venom, but the bee does. The only Apocrita that doesn't use a toxin is the ant, the ant injects formic acid to incapacitate enemies by pain. Bees and Wasps use a mixture of enzymes that disturbs the bodies hormonal balance (and thus causing extreme changes in pulse and blood pressure) or paralyze nerves (and thus stop the victim's heart or breath)

When the insects grow larger, the bees won't find enough pollen to feed their brood, and so they'll re-evolve to wasp-like predators that hunt for fresh flesh to feed their larvae. And a man-sized wasp will have a poison potent enough to incapacitate man-sized prey.

[PhilosophiX]

I'm not missing the point. As far as I'm concerned poisonous Hive Drones makes about as much sense as poisonous badgers.

Of course. Badgers aren't poisonous, neither are bees, but since nobody wanted that you die from eating a giant-bee corpse, we're talking about venomous animals here, and bees belong to that class just like a black widow or a rattlesnake.

Badgers don't use venom, but the bee does. The only Apocrita that doesn't use a toxin is the ant, the ant injects formic acid to incapacitate enemies by pain. Bees and Wasps use a mixture of enzymes that disturbs the bodies hormonal balance (and thus causing extreme changes in pulse and blood pressure) or paralyze nerves (and thus stop the victim's heart or breath)

When the insects grow larger, the bees won't find enough pollen to feed their brood, and so they'll re-evolve to wasp-like predators that hunt for fresh flesh to feed their larvae. And a man-sized wasp will have a poison potent enough to incapacitate man-sized prey.

Using science to further your agenda for giant, venomous wasps, is an absolute joke! You're ignoring the fact that scientifically giant insects are impossible due to the way tracheal breathing works. Wasps with a wing span of 2 feet would be scientifically possible supposing the ratio of oxygen in the air was much higher, but then every campfire in Thaermore would turn into a raging inferno and burn down the Tangletree forest due to the high oxygen content!

This is a fantasy world, science has nothing to do with it. I'm not saying that wasps aren't venomous, I'm not even saying that they aren't dangerous to humans in general, I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things a single bee sting isn't as big a deal as a sting from a poisonous snake, or a poisonous spider, unless you're allergic to them. I'm very happy with the way it's implemented in the game.

We are talking about a scale here, not scientific nitty gritty but sweeping generalizations; this is a fantasy game, remember, not science fiction!

I like the fact that the Hive Drones sting you for damage and don't leave you with the lingering effect of poison in the game. I think the loss of health suffered each time a Hive Drone stings is more than representative of any ill effects that the stinger has.

Adding a poison penalty is going overboard, I think that the fewer creatures which have poisonous effects the better! If every other creature has poison then you're going to be reminded at every turn that you should carry a ton of detox potions about! Since there are few creatures with poison in Book I there is the chance that you might get lax, forget to bring some, get caught out - isn't that more fun than always having to deal with poisonous creatures?

Personally I don't like it when games have too many poisonous creatures. Saddling everything with poison is not much of a solution, and doesn't make the game more exciting it just makes it a pain in the a** having to buy expensive detox potions or spend time waiting out the effects.

I mentioned badgers for a reason, and I knew you would take the bait. They aren't poisonous, but the game does handle diseases, and any mammal may harbor diseases (rats/dogs/bats etc). Once you start arguing for silly things like poisonous wasps where do you stop? Shouldn't blood sippers have a chance to disease you? Lizards are well known for that, they harbor extremely potent bacteria in their mouths which, like venom, has severely detrimental effects upon their victim. Might as well give Salamanders the chance to disease you as well. Come to think on it, given their size, Noximanders should be able to pw0n level 20 masters, with a single bite!

But thankfully they don't because it's just a game, and science has nothing to do with it, it's all about balance!