A question about Hit Points

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Vennor
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Post by Vennor » May 3rd, 2007, 10:26 am

Haven't time right now for reading previous posts, but i think it would be great if char will get for example +1HP for leveling (1HP + xHP from skills).

What about that?

Edit: I mean: magican, who don't add many points to endurance or strength will be a one-shoot target even on high levels if he won't get HP for leveling.
Last edited by Vennor on May 3rd, 2007, 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Vennor
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Post by Vennor » May 3rd, 2007, 10:30 am

Oops, sorry for that post - mistake :oops:.

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Gallifrey
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Post by Gallifrey » May 3rd, 2007, 10:37 am

Shouldn't he get +7 hp? If there's +2 per every 5 level of Endurance, and his Endurance is 15, that's three 5 level increments, so 2x3= +6 hp, plus the +1 from 10 levels of Strength.
Or do the first 5 stat levels not count?
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BasiliskWrangler
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Post by BasiliskWrangler » May 3rd, 2007, 11:32 am

No- we made the bottom cutoff for gaining extra HP level 10. So at level 10 he gets +2 HP and then another +2 HP every five levels after that (i.e. 15, 20, 25 etc.)

Why have the level 10 cutoff? Well, it encourages players to distribute points a little more evenly than just piling everything into 1 category and becoming some freakish god, even though you could still do that if you want. Example: what if a player decided to make the ultimate Wizard by putting EVERYTHING into Perception and leaving Endurance at, say, Level 5. Well, if we do that using our current system, you would create some crazy mana-producing mage, but you'd have to use all that magic to protect yourself because with such a blatant disregard for your physical health, you will never naturally gain any hit points.

And if you pile everything in Endurance? Well, you won't hit very hard without Strength and you won't be accurate with Dexterity and Concentration...but you'll take damage like a tank.

As always, it is all about balance- making sure it's as fun and fair as possible.

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Post by Gallifrey » May 3rd, 2007, 11:38 am

I see, that definitely works.
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Post by Vennor » May 3rd, 2007, 1:07 pm

That's ok I think.

Add a great storyline and Eschalon will be a good replayable game.

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Post by Gorvin » May 19th, 2007, 4:12 am

If I understand correctly, putting points into Endurance/Perception/etc won't be retroactive?

e.g. Hypothetical situation involving 2 different characters:

Before reaching level 10, CharacterA and CharacterB are the same in all respects (same Attributes, HP, etc).
CharacterA increases his Endurance to 20 when he reaches level 10.
CharacterB instead waits until he's level 25 before increasing his Endurance to 20.
At level 30 they both have the same amount of points in all Attributes.

Will CharacterA have more HP because he increased his Endurance earlier on than CharacterB (and thus had more levels where he was gaining 6 HP from his Endurance instead of 4)?


I know it's in the spirit of old school games to do this, but I personally dislike these sorts of systems. They typically encourage me to focus on building up a large quantity of "Endurance" (or whatever other stats affect level-ups) early on so that I don't miss out on stats I would have otherwise had later on. I much prefer systems where my character(s)'s HP/MP/etc are based on some function of their level and Attributes at any given time, as it gives me more freedom to build up their stats naturally. Just my opinion.

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Post by BasiliskWrangler » May 19th, 2007, 6:39 am

Gorvin, yes that is correct. You don't retroactively gain HP.

I understand everyone's concerns about Endurance, Hit Points and game balance, but really it's in the spirit of all classic role-playing.

A Mage is not going to have the endurance of a Fighter. In the classical role-playing definition, a mage spends his life reading spellbooks while a Fighter spends his life hunting dragons. Lower Hit Points and Strength are the unfortunate realities of being a pure Mage. But Mages have magic and so they don't need HP like a Fighter does. A Mage can cast various protective spells and launch devastating fireballs from a distance. Mages can go invisible. Mages can teleport. Since they rarely engage in hand-to-hand combat, Hit Points are not as important to a mage.

Of course, with Eschalon, you can go any direction with development: make a magic-user Fighter or an Alchemist Thief. But remember, these cross-class character paths are generally more difficult to play because you have to spread your skills and attributes out thinner than being devoted to one discipline.

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Post by floppymoose » June 18th, 2007, 7:49 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:But remember, these cross-class character paths are generally more difficult to play because you have to spread your skills and attributes out thinner than being devoted to one discipline.
Actually, whether jack-of-all-trades are harder to play depends entirely on the game. If the game requires you to minimally proficient in many different skills, the jack is actually easier to play.

But I know what you mean. Most RPGs are about finding a way to be strong enough to achieve an objective, where *what* you have to be strong at isn't set in stone (could be fighting, magic, or stealth, for instance).

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Post by Tauschitz » June 19th, 2007, 2:07 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:We've went old school...you automatically gain mana points and hit points at each level. However, the amount of HP and MP you gain is linked to Endurance and Perception respectively. This way fighters and mages naturally tend to progress like they should, i.e. fighters eventually develop deep HP reserves and mages develop deep MP reserves.
I know I am late to the conversation, but I am glad that the sdecision was made to go the old school route described above.

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Post by Krafen » January 27th, 2008, 1:09 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Correct. Here's the actual formula, which may or may not undergo further tweaking after our next major test-

Let's start with this 1st level Fighter-type character who is advancing to level 2:
Strength [17]
Dexterity [14]
Endurance [15]
Speed [12]

Intelligence [11]
Wisdom [12]
Perception [8]
Concentration [9]


For Hit Points, the primary attribute is Endurance and the secondary attribute is Strength. Starting at level 10, he'll get +2 HPs for every 5 levels of Endurance, and +1 HP for every 10 levels of Strength.

He'll also gain some mana even though he might not even use it. Perception is the primary attribute there, but since it is below 10 he gets no bonus at all from that attribute. However, his secondary mana attribute (Intelligence) is above 10 so he'll get +1 mana point for that.

So, this level, he'll get +5 Hit Points, (4 from Endurance, 1 from Strength) and +1 Mana Point (1 from Intelligence). He also gets to distribute an additional 3 attribute points per level. So by level 3, if he puts all his attribute points into Endurance and Strength, he could be earning +8 Hit Points per level. Or, he can stop developing his physical attributes and put the points into Perception and Intelligence, and begin making significant gains in Mana Points every level.
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but would you please provide an update on how HP and MP increases are calculated in the current version? I could be wrong, but it seems to have changed a bit from what you described here. I was unable to find any other posts explaining the calculation.

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Post by SolarDruid » January 29th, 2008, 7:11 am

Hi,

I like how hit points works now. You have to decide carefully where to invest and if you would like to have more hit points or mana. I think game is well balanced and automatically increasing hit points every level would make game to easy.

sd

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