Realism in RPG's

[walter61939]

Seems like a contradiction in terms, doesn't it? After all, if realism is what you're after, why spend your time pretending to be a dragon-slaying dwarf? But I think the concept of realism in games confuses what are usually two entirely different phenomena, one of which is, for me anyway, a nuisance, while the other is what separates a good game from a great one. The first kind includes having to eat and drink, having to sleep, in short having to do in the game all those boring things we have to do in real life (does anyone know of a game that requires you to go to the bathroom?). I really don't want to have to carry enough food and water to explore a dungeon fully, especially if I have an encumbrance allowance or limited inventory slots to worry about. Similarly, I don't want to have to rest simply because 16 game hours have gone by since I awoke. On the other hand, if these activities are integrated into the game I welcome them, having sleep restore strength or stamina, having food and water replenish health and mana, as they do in some games. As for weather, if the graphics make rain look as good as it did in say Morrowind, I'm all for it; otherwise I'd rather have bright sunshine all the time. After all, if I want darkness, I can always explore a dungeon. The other kind of realism arises from the reality and consistency of the game world and can be really striking. In Fallout 3, I freed a hostage but didn't accompany her to her destination because I was anxious to complete some business of my own. A couple of minutes later I stumbled on her corpse; she was dead and it was my fault. Actions, and inactions, have consequences, and the game showed me in a very unpleasant but memorable way what my self-absorption led to. Respawns, which most gamers either love or hate, are another case in point. I really don't want to have to kill the same monsters in the same place every time I pass through it, but if their reappearance makes sense in the game world I'm all for it, having highwaymen, for example, keep showing up in the same place because it's a perfect spot for an ambush. Sorry to have gone on for so long, but I guess it's the price you have to pay for not having Eschalon Book II out yet.

[realmzmaster]

I agree that too much realism can take you out of that fantasy feel. But, it depends on the game. A game like Mount and Blade has realism is designed into the game. There is no such item as a healing potion. Also you will not find fire breathing dragons. So if you purchase Mount and Blade one would be unable to complain about too much realism, because that was the intent.

On the other hand I find it kind of silly that I can go through an entire dungeon with a shortsword and not have to sharpen it or not have it break against a warhammer. A good balance lies somewhere between the extremes.

If weather is going to be included in a game it should have an effect on the character. What is the sense of having it snow or below zero temperatures if it has no effect on the performance of the character.

Just a few thoughts.

[CrazyBernie]

(does anyone know of a game that requires you to go to the bathroom?)

It's called The Sims. ^_^

On the other hand I find it kind of silly that I can go through an entire dungeon with a shortsword and not have to sharpen it or not have it break against a warhammer.

Well, the knights of yore did not stop in the middle of a massive battle and have tea while they sharpened their swords, did they? Alternative explanations could also explain why the sword did not break, such as avoiding the blow of the hammer altogether. I wouldn't mind weapon degradation if I had to repair between dungeon crawls, but stopping after a few monster battles to fix it up would definitely be tedious.

If weather is going to be included in a game it should have an effect on the character. What is the sense of having it snow or below zero temperatures if it has no effect on the performance of the character.

The point is atmosphere. I'm not a big fan of weather affecting character performance. As long as its kept to special areas that are supposed to be a challenge, I can deal with it. But walking around in a normal area and having a blizzard show up and allow for some easy monsters to end up kicking my ass would be a bit annoying. Weather should be used to create atmosphere that allows you to proper enjoy the story. In other words, that Blizzard should show up when you're on a quest to obtain an ancient artifact in an arctic region that no one has ever returned alive from. It allows you to appreciate the 'epicness' of the quest.

Performance Enhancing Weather should be illegal...

[Randomizer]

If weather is going to be included in a game it should have an effect on the character. What is the sense of having it snow or below zero temperatures if it has no effect on the performance of the character.

Go over to Spiderweb Software and if you have Blades of Avernum registered you can play the scenario Frostbite. Seeing the effect of extreme cold on your character gets really annoying even with the cool snow terrain. There was a bug where the potions that were suppose to counteract those effects didn't work properly.

[Rune_74]

Acording to what is known about book 2 weather will have an effect on your actual character.

I'm not sure if this is in but I would love to see rain have effect on fire spells or extreme heat on cold spells etc....I see it as am imersive part of the world.

Nothing worse then your bikini clad warrior priestess going through a blizzard to ruin immersion.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Weather has an effect, but not in the sense that you can freeze to death or drop dead from heat stroke in the middle of the desert.

In Book II, weather has an effect on your Move Silently skill (this skill is enhanced during bad weather because your natural sounds are covered by wind and rain). However, it also gets very dark at night during a storm and torches can blow out- try relighting a torch in the rain; you are better off using magick light. We are working to adjust some spells during rain and snow conditions (what happens to Fireballs in the rain? Deep Freeze in a blizzard?). Ranged attacks with arrows and thrown weapons will suffer a penalty during windy conditions.

Overall, weather is meant to enhance the visual and audible realism of the game world and maybe force the player to alter their play style when an impending storm is coming (better hold up for the night in the Inn and head out in the morning- no need to wander the dark woods in the rain).

[realmzmaster]

The point is atmosphere. I'm not a big fan of weather affecting character performance. As long as its kept to special areas that are supposed to be a challenge, I can deal with it. But walking around in a normal area and having a blizzard show up and allow for some easy monsters to end up kicking my ass would be a bit annoying.

Here we can agree to disagree. I think it adds to the atmosphere and challenge. Those easy creatures whose butt you use to kick while it was nice and clear now have the upper hand. The hunter becomes the hunted.

Well, the knights of yore did not stop in the middle of a massive battle and have tea while they sharpened their swords, did they?

No, They would pick up a sword off the battlefield or they used the broken weapon until a better one could be acquired. Sometimes they would have to fight hand to hand. The knights of yore were versatile fellows.

An example of weather conditions was in Morrowind. The ash storms had an effect on how fast the character could move when walking into or away from the storm and on visibility. In the expansion Bloodmoon, the character was in an area with arctic conditions. Frost or ice spells did no damage. Weapons with frost damage did only their normal unenchanted damage.

I find it kind of useless to have weather conditions for cosmetic purposes only. Might as well have the same weather all the way through the game than have effects that affect nothing.
Just my thoughts

[Randomizer]

Having weather change what you can do adds some variety. You can't just hack or blast your way through when change. It will give you a reason to actually think about the weather as another factor to use when slipping past an enemy or engaging one.