List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

[IJBall]

OK, I've worked through all the character possibilities, in terms of character "titles", starting Skills, and your one "set" starting Item (that depends on your "title") - they're listed in the 'code' box below.

I'll revisit this thread later, and post some "thoughts" I have about some of these, and my suggestions for a few changes going into Book III...

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CHARACTER TITLES, STARTING SKILLS & STARTING ITEMS: 

* Note: For "Titles", female "titles" are listed first, male "titles" second. 

Class      Axiom       *Title        Starting Skill        Start. Item
-----      -----        -----        --------------        -----------
Fighter    Atheistic    Valkyrie     Weapons, Swords       Sword
                        Mercenary
Fighter    Druidic      Nightshade   Armor, Shields        Shield
                        Preserver
Fighter    Virtuous     Lioness      Weapons, Swords       Sword
                        Paladin
Fighter    Nefarious    Banshee      Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Berserker
Fighter    Agnostic     Amazon       Weapons, Bludgeoning  Cudgel/Club
                        Barbarian

Rogue      Atheistic    Bohemian     Lore                  Dagger
                        Bard
Rogue      Druidic      Satyress     Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Divine Heal
                        Shadowlark
Rogue      Virtuous     Rebel        Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Rebel
Rogue      Nefarious    Backbiter    Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Assassin
Rogue      Agnostic     Burglar      Pick Locks            Lock Picks (3-4)
                        Thief

Mage       Atheistic    Illusionist  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Illusionist
Mage       Druidic      Conjuress    Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Conjuror
Mage       Virtuous     Enchantress  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Mage
Mage       Nefarious    Sorceress    Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Warlock
Mage       Agnostic     Mystic       Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Mystic

Healer     Atheistic    Pythoness    Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Sawbones
Healer     Druidic      Wiccan       Medicine              Dagger
                        True Druid
Healer     Virtuous     Cleric       Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Divine Heal
                        Cleric
Healer     Nefarious    Witch        Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Necromancer
Healer     Agnostic     Sibyl        Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Fleshboil
                        Theurgist

Ranger     Atheistic    Naturalist   Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Naturalist
Ranger     Druidic      Dryad        Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Guardian
Ranger     Virtuous     Warden       Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Fleshboil
                        Shepherd 
Ranger     Nefarious    Siren        Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Blighter
Ranger     Agnostic     Huntress     Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Vanquisher

[Rebelicious]

Hah. I did this just yesterday, when I realized that females had different titles. Can't say that I like all titles or that some titles shouldn't be unisex (Shepard sounds lame, Warden sounds awesome; Whyyyyyyy?! ).

Anyways, nice list.

[IJBall]

OK, time to get back to this.

Consider the following posts kind of a 'review' of the various 'Titles', as well as offering some thoughts/suggestions for these for Book III.

Let's start off with the Fighter-class titles:

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Class      Axiom       *Title        Starting Skill        Start. Item
-----      -----        -----        --------------        -----------
Fighter    Atheistic    Valkyrie     Weapons, Swords       Sword
                        Mercenary
Fighter    Druidic      Nightshade   Armor, Shields        Shield
                        Preserver
Fighter    Virtuous     Lioness      Weapons, Swords       Sword
                        Paladin
Fighter    Nefarious    Banshee      Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Berserker
Fighter    Agnostic     Amazon       Weapons, Bludgeoning  Cudgel/Club
                        Barbarian

By and large, I think the Fighter offerings are probably the best put together of the various Classes - I think at least 4 out of the 5 are good choices for the Fighter class, and encourage some diversification of weapons skills. Also, I like pretty much all of these Titles' names ("Lioness" is the most 'iffy' of the lot, IMHO... )

(The one caveat is that Agnostic Fighter is the only title that gives you Bludgeoning Weapons - I think it might be good if one or two other 'Titles' gave Bludgeoning as their 'set' Skill as well...)

The one really interesting, and maybe a little controversial, one is Druidic Fighter. On the one hand, I like that it gives you Shields as your Skill (the only 'Title' that does!) - so at least one 'Title' encourages development of the Shield skill. But, OTOH, I think it's a little 'off' that one of the Fighter 'Title' skills is a defensive Skill, and that just seems a little peculiar for the "Fighter" class to me - I think I could make a good argument that Druidic Fighter should either get Thrown Weapons or Unarmed Combat as its 'set' Skill instead.

I think this point is worth debating going into Book III - that none of the given 'Titles' give either Thrown Weapons or Unarmed Combat as the 'set' Skill, and maybe one of them should...

[IJBall]

OK, I feel like covering one more Class, and then I'll knock off for today, and maybe pick this up again tomorrow.

Next up is Rogue (which is good, as there are a lot of issues with this one!):

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Rogue      Atheistic    Bohemian     Lore                  Dagger
                        Bard
Rogue      Druidic      Satyress     Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Divine Heal
                        Shadowlark
Rogue      Virtuous     Rebel        Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Rebel
Rogue      Nefarious    Backbiter    Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Assassin
Rogue      Agnostic     Burglar      Pick Locks            Lock Picks (3-4)
                        Thief

The biggest issue with the 'given' Rogue skills is what was discussed in this thread - it seems very odd (I'd say almost bad...) that none of the Rogue 'titles' offer either Hide in Shadows or Skullduggery as their 'set' Skill.

That just seems way wrong to me.

In looking at least one of these, I think I can see what happened - BW looked at the 'Title', and thought to himself, "Well, lemme see... 'Bards' sing songs, so they know stories, so they probably should get Lore!!"

And that's fine, as far as it goes (and having at least one 'Title' in the game grant Lore as the skill is actually kind of cool...).

But the problem is - this is the Rogue class we're talking about here, and Rogue's stock and trade should be Pick Locks, Skullduggery, Hide in Shadows, Piercing Weapons, and then maybe stuff like Move Silently, or Lore, or Skills like that.

If I was going to revise this Class, I'd be tempted to go with this:

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Rogue      Atheistic    --           Pick Locks            Lock Picks (3-4)
Rogue      Druidic      --           Hide in Shadows       Bow or (Thrown)
Rogue      Virtuous     --           Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Sparkling Wonder(!)
Rogue      Nefarious    --           Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
Rogue      Agnostic     --           Skullduggery         *Dagger, Bow, (Thrown/Bludg.)

 * Just *one* of these 4, not all 4!!

The interesting decisions here are - Do you give any Rogue class a Magick? And, if you do, do you go with Divination (as BW did), or do you go with Elemental?

I chose to go with Elemental because, out of all the spells in the game, Sparkling Wonder just screams "I'm a Rogue spell!", and it fits in with Virtuous as a "Virtuous Rogue" would seem like the type that would try to scare NPCs and mobs away rather than fight them. (Edit: Also, now that I think about it, Lock Melt and Trap Kill are also Elemental spells, that generally fit in better with the "Rogue" archetype - so I think Arcane, Elemental is the better magical choice for the Virtuous Rogue title...)

I realize this is all subjective, and opinions will differ. But I think, going into Book III, the Rogue Titles & Skills needs to be reworked (which may necessitate shuffling and/or "renaming" some of the 'Titles' to better demonstrate what they're about...) so that they better reflect what "Rogue" is supposed to be as a "Class".

Just IMHO, of course.

[xolotl]

I had actually gone through some time ago to see what the titles were - the only one that really stood out to me was "Wiccan" for a female Druid... Seemed like a bit of fourth-wall breakage there; while Eschalon may have a Wicca-like religion, it seems a bit odd to actually call it "Wicca," given that everything else is purely fictional.

Minor gripe, of course...

[IJBall]

I had actually gone through some time ago to see what the titles were - the only one that really stood out to me was "Wiccan" for a female Druid... Seemed like a bit of fourth-wall breakage there; while Eschalon may have a Wicca-like religion, it seems a bit odd to actually call it "Wicca," given that everything else is purely fictional.

I kind of agree, which is why I'm going to propose that "Priestess" (or possibly "Shaman") replace "Wiccan" for Female Druidic Healer (in Book III)...

[IJBall]

Here are my reworked Rogue 'Titles', based on my suggested revisions to the Rogue class above:

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Rogue      Atheistic    Burglar      Pick Locks            Lock Picks (3-4)
                        Thief
Rogue      Druidic      Phantom      Hide in Shadows       Bow or (Thrown)
                        Shadowlark
Rogue      Virtuous   Prestiditator  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Sparkling Wonder(!)
                        Magician
Rogue      Nefarious   *Murderess    Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Assassin
Rogue      Agnostic     Artisan      Skullduggery          Dagger, or Bow, 
                        Tinker (or Bard?)                    or (Thrown), or (Bludge.)

* "Murderess", or maybe "Cutthroat"?...

I think these revised titles now make the whole reworked Rogue class better...

[Randomizer]

The arcane divination skill is probably a holdover from giving virtuous characters a free bless spell from Book 1 and using that as a start to use bless spell to improve attacks. Personally I agree that having skullduggery and hide in shadows as starting skills makes more sense.

[Turtle]

Here are my reworked Rogue 'Titles', based on my suggested revisions to the Rogue class above:

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Rogue      Atheistic    Burglar      Pick Locks            Lock Picks (3-4)
                        Thief
Rogue      Druidic      Phantom      Hide in Shadows       Bow or (Thrown)
                        Shadowlark
Rogue      Virtuous   Prestiditator  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Sparkling Wonder(!)
                        Magician
Rogue      Nefarious   *Murderess    Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Assassin
Rogue      Agnostic     Artisan      Skullduggery          Dagger, or Bow, 
                        Tinker (or Bard?)                    or (Thrown), or (Bludge.)

* "Murderess", or maybe "Cutthroat"?...

I think these revised titles now make the whole reworked Rogue class better...

How about "huckster" "con artist" or "swindler" for virtuous?

I like "cutthroat" better than "murderess", but what about "renegade" or (an oldie but a goodie) "backstabber"?

[Dragonlady]

a woman who practices the black arts *ancient laws against witches*
Synonyms bruja, enchantress, hag, hex, lamia, sorceress, witchwoman; compare MAGICIAN 1
2
Synonyms HAG 2, ||bag, ||bat, beldam, biddy, crone, drab, trot

Instead of witch for Healer list, how about one of the above? I looked up the word in my Thesaurus. Bruja sounds good. The synonym list made me smile. I learned something new!

[IJBall]

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Rogue      Virtuous   Prestiditator  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Spark. Wonder
                        Magician
Rogue      Nefarious   *Murderess    Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Assassin

* "Murderess", or maybe "Cutthroat"?...

How about "huckster" "con artist" or "swindler" for virtuous?

I think any of those are perfectly good suggestions.
The one caveat is that tying "con artist" or "swindler" together with "Virtuous" axiom seems a little... "off" to me.

I will just say, though, that I went with Prestiditator & Magician for my suggestion for Virtuous Rogue as an attempt to tie it in with the Magical part of that class - I was trying to think of the type of magic that implies "misdirection" or "deception", and "Prestiditator" and "Magician" were all I could come up with as BW has already used, for example, the "Illusionist" Title in another Class.

I like "cutthroat" better than "murderess", but what about "renegade" or (an oldie but a goodie) "backstabber"?

You're right - these are all better than "Murderess": any of your suggested Titles would be great, IMHO.

[darkhartx1]

So I take it we don't agree that Rebel should be out? It's... It's not a class man!

Class = occupation. Any assassin, bard, guardian, or cleric could be a rebel, it's just not right to call it a class, it's killing me


Nvm. I just seen the "wonder" Vindicator would be nice.

[darkhartx1]

a woman who practices the black arts *ancient laws against witches*
Synonyms bruja, enchantress, hag, hex, lamia, sorceress, witchwoman; compare MAGICIAN 1
2
Synonyms HAG 2, ||bag, ||bat, beldam, biddy, crone, drab, trot

Instead of witch for Healer list, how about one of the above? I looked up the word in my Thesaurus. Bruja sounds good. The synonym list made me smile. I learned something new!

Bruja is a Clan of vampires from the World of Darkness Pen and paper games as well as their videogames and upcoming MMO. Using that name would be... Dangerous.

[IJBall]

The arcane divination skill is probably a holdover from giving virtuous characters a free bless spell from Book 1 and using that as a start to use bless spell to improve attacks...

And this, of course, leads to the question - should any Rogue title grant you a "Magickal" skill?!

If the answer is "No!", then the alternative for Virtuous would probably be:

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Rogue      Virtuous     Rebel        Move Silently         Dagger(?)
                        Renegade

or

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Rogue      Virtuous     Bohemian     Lore                  Dagger(?)
                        Bard

I'm personally fine with either one "Magickal" Rogue "Title", or no "Magickal" Rogue "Title", so I'm OK with this either way.

To answer darkhartx1 question, I'm OK with "Rebel" being a Title - I agree it might be 'iffy', but it's better than some of the alternatives I think.

[IJBall]

Oh, and I find one of darkhartx1's points in his thread interesting - that Paladins (Virtuous Fighters) should be the ones to get shields, not Druidic Fighters! This is an intriguing suggestion.

If we go with that, I'd revise two of the Fighter Titles thusly:

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Fighter    Druidic      Nightshade   Unarmed or Thrown    *???! or (Thrown)
                        Preserver
Fighter    Virtuous     Paladin      Armor, Shields        Shield
                        Knight 

 * Maybe a piece of Leather Armor (like a Jerkin, AR=2 or 3) to go with Unarmed Combat?...

I'm trying to replace the Title "Lioness" (which I don't care for) with something here...