Opinion after 1st playthrough

[Moril]

Hello all,

After finishing Book 1 i decided to do a little report.

This is going to be a text bomb. You have been warned.

English is not my native language so please excuse all the grammar and Spelling errors you "will" stumble upon.

Basically i just wanted to sum up all the things i liked, what i did not like and what i hope for in future games from basilisk.

I know many of my wishes/ideas cannot be realized because of the "one step - one game round" system, i will nag about it anyway

I know many things have improved in Book 2, perhaps many of the things i will mention below. This Report is for book 1 only.


Movement
-------------
Walking only...
Running, jumping/climbing, riding horses and flying carpets are the way to go.

As for Running, climbing and jumping think of Ultima 8. And no, that does not mean that eschalon needs to become a jump and run game as ultima 8 did.

But its nice to climb up that tower bridge, enter the tower from above loot everything and leave, avoiding the guard downstairs at the front door. Stuff like that.

As for Riding make it Ultima 7/Online like. Maybe implement a Riding Skill (Increase speed or chance to stay in saddle after being hit)

The more you are able to move freely in a world, especialy in such a big one the more realistic it feels.

Oh, and on Autotravel, what about random encounters ? (survival check, on fail spawn on a wood/crossroads/burntvillage/whatever map with one or multiple exits and an encounter of some sort, wandering merchant to goblin warband)

Combat
----------
As for melee, its quite boring. Left Click to kill. End.
Where are Attack Options? (defensive mode, Trip, Stun, Counter attack)

For archers its quite the same. I see the problem with doing "special attacks" with bows tho. There isnt much you can do, other than shot regulary, shot fast and less accurate or slow and more accurate.
(Perhaps allow spending a round for aiming, for a better to-hit score, something like that)

Of course as soon as you mix fighter/Archer with Magic it gets far more interesting. But a true warrior should not be reduced to the left mouse button.

There is no reason for usage of daggers/shortblades. Rogues love daggers. Give them a reason to use them. (bonus on hide in shadows when attacking to stay hidden, etc.)

Mages seem to be fun, tho it seems like you can just stick with your most powerfull attack spell and blast everything away.

All in all i found it okay, i wish there were more tactical options to choose from within a single round.


Enemies / Npcs
-----------------
Too many lizards and oozes, too little variation overall.

Why must every Bandit look equal. Why cant they have random equipment from a list and just like the PC change look according to what they wear.
That would be awesome.

Enemies usually do one attack/spell and move thats it. Would be nice if most enemys had like 2-3 different abilities/qualities.

If you see the omfg snake and remember, that it spits poison, is able to grapple/constrict you and is afraid of fire, you might change tactics, put the sword away, keep distance so you dont get grappled and choose the fire spell because of the snakes weakness.

If you are forced to change your tactics to beat your foes then its a good thing.


AI
-----
The AI is plain stupid. There is no excuse for that
Let them heal each other, them selves, use buffs or keep formations. (archers behind, melee stands as a wall in front)

To me the terrible AI is perhaps the biggest issue in the whole game.

Stealth
---------
I liked it, but i wish i could choose for my self when i want to be sneaky and when to show my self. For me it worked fine, from breaking into houses to steal up to using it in combat.

Maybe more puzzles within the light system. Magic globes that turn off and on every 3 rounds, so timing becomes more important. Enemies that carry torches them selves ? Or just plain citiy guards that do...

I found it sad that there was no pickpocketing. I like stealing so much.

And there should be SOME kind of ability/skill to use when hidden and behind an enemy. just.. something. Garotte, Backstab, Blackjack you get the idea

Random Loot and the savescamming thing
-------------------------------------------
I can live with it. But i would not describe it as fun.

As for loot i loved the way they did that in morrowind, only unimportant non-unique stuff was random. The rest handplaced. That, of course is a LOT of work.

Its always strange fighting the hard monsters around the treasure chest,
barly surviving, only to find a single piece of bread in it.

As for savescamming, perhaps fixed values required to open a lvl X lock would be better. Investing in a high open-lock skill would have real ingame value and not only just less RL time getting wasted by save/load/load/load.

Itemization
-------------
I liked it, simple but not too simple.

I found many items with different names but same dmg/weight - why ?
They even look the same when equipped - which leads me to...

I wish that what i wear would be shown more precise, so the flail looks like a flail on my avatar and not like a hammer.

Inventory and HUD
---------------------
Well, mixed feelings about this.

I dont see why i always need my world map open, in combat id rather like to see more of the actual game.

The "Status" window (poisoned, curesed, hidden window) takes far too much space, the notifications already happen in the lower left (combat-rolls, dialoge) box...

And the line "You are cursed/diseased" could pop up in the character sheet, or as a symbol in some corner of the game screen.

For example, a symbol of a foot touchíng the ground only with its toes (silent), a barely visible siluette of a man (hidden) a skull with bones (poison) you get the idea.

And if you go over the symbol with your cursor tool tip with info.
Less Hud more game please.

I liked inventory, Character Sheet and Paperdoll.

The Spellbook, on ther other hand...it looks... cheap.
I always liked the way the spellbook was designed in Ultima Online.

Also it would be nice if all windows containing information would float, and by that i mean moveable by click and drag.

Design and World Interaction
-------------------------------
I like the look of the world both outdoor and interior.

I wish i could move objects around as in Ultima 7, it would add new ways to hide stuff and it would add new options for puzzle design. (put the 3 stones in the right slots etc.)

There is very little interaction with objects, very few different containers.
And all containers seem to have the same item capacity. If there is a full bookshelf then there should be books in it which i can read/steal/sell.

And i want the ability to drop items and then pick them up again... no, not everything that i drop vanishes into oblivion.

I was a bit dissapointed by the npc "routines" - they do nothing. Its not necessary to have too complex routines but for the standard vendor a sleep/work routine would already let the world look more "alive".

Overall i hoped for more npc actions, and more interactive items/objects.
Let me sit in a chair and sleep in a bed !

Oh yeah and buidlings with roofs would be nice as well. (so they vanish when you enter) This would also prevent me from seeing whats inside a house until i enter it.

Dialog
--------
Not enough dialog options, too litte choice. Attributes/Skill do not offer new/better dialog options. Think of fallout 2, Planescape:T, those systems were awesome and the games gained extra replay value from it.

Id also like to see social skills (diplomacy, Bluff etc.)

You have quite a fan community, maybe get them to record dialog lines for the game. Not every sentence must be voiced over but a few voiced lines make an important NPC much more memorable.

Leveling System
-------------------
Liked it, I always loved fallouts traits/perks perhaps something like that can be added.

I found it strange that when i left some points open i could not spend them before the next level up. Wouldnt it have been enough that you cannot reopen the lvlup window in combat,with enemys near or within dungeons ?

Story
-------
Good overall, i liked the twist after the 3d letter.
The ending was well, unexpected fast and missed that "epic" feeling, I was like huh ? Thats it ?


After reading all this over, i noticed that i might sound a bit "harsh".
Far more than i wanted.

So lets find some things i really liked about Eschalon 1.

I loved the rich detailed world.
I like the fact that exploration gets rewarded, search every corner and it will pay off.
I really liked the Dungeon designs.
The leveling mechanics leave a lot of freedom and its overall well designed.
The music is fantastic, it manages to draw you in to the game perfectly.
As an always rogue player i was very pleased to see lots of buildings to rob and shadows to lurk in, the sneaking mechanics worked very well.
This game can be quite challenging, this is a good thing.

All in all i really liked the game.

A long time passed since i last sat at work, staring at the clock waiting impatiently to get home and continue playing a game.

It has been a blast, and the only thing that really kicking me out of the experience was the almost non existant AI.

If you actually read all this, thank you and have a nice day.

Moril

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Welcome, Moril,

You'll find many who agree and disagree with lots of your points. Some of the things, like combat options, you get a bit more of in Book II, as each weapon type gets a special "feat" at level 10. Also, BW added an optional fixed seed in Book II so those who don't like the constant savescumming can so without it (and get rewarded with higher XP for choosing that option). There are also optional food requirements, optional equipment deterioration, and optional save limitations.

Certain things we know (from BW) we will not get in this series, such as mounts we can ride, and I don't expect we'll be getting random encounters in any circumstance other than when we're camping. There is a bit more in Book II of using an Escher-esque virtual 3D in a 2D environment to give some levels to things.

Remember, also, that the folks who made Ultima had a pretty good staff, whereas mostly Basilisk Games is one guy. There is a limit to how much he can get into the games and still get them out before we're all playing computer games on implants in our skulls.

[Evnissyen]

Thanks for your input and thoughts, Moril.

My response :

* I don't like the idea of Jumping at all (except to dodge foes that are surrounding you, as I've mentioned in another thread -- this should require really high Dex), but . . . the ability to climb would certainly be nice. (And as for running: to satisfy my ego or read more ideas, see my previous suggestions on how I think running should be implemented, in this thread here.)

* No riding, either! Horses are a no-no. Sure, The Faerie Tale Adventure had a mechanical bird (close to the end), but... Eschalon is different. For the most part, your feet are all you have.

* On quick-travel: the only thing I think should be added is the option to designate your own quick-travel point of choice, which you may change at any point. So, you can choose your home, for example, or you can choose what you feel is an important place despite what the game suggests, or... you can choose whatever place you were last at.

* Combat modes: these can be found at the bottom of the screen. Click on the sword icon. Finesse Mode will reduce damage but increase accuracy Power Mode will do the opposite (and is particulary useful if you've earned a specialization skill with your chosen weapon), Parry Mode will increase your AC though it won't let you attack -- this is useful in situations where, say, you have to get close to an enemy without being hit, or if you have to get through a specific area (for example, if you're searching for the Sextant at lvl 1) without being hit.

But you have an excellent point: more attack options is a good idea.

* On piercing weapons: I believe (based only on what I've heard) that specialty mode offers the ability to attack twice in one round, which can be deadly at high levels.

* You're right that there should be a greater variety of creatures, especially non-threatening wildlife. Why, after all, should all creatures be after your mortality?

* Backstabbing: excellent idea. Pickpocketing: nah. NPC's and humanoid creatures carrying torches: yes yes yes, I totally agree.

* On carried weapons: decent point, but at least it's not like Avernum, where your character is carrying a ludicrous Inuyasha-size sword if the sword is his/her chosen weapon.

* larger world screen and closable interface windows (map, event window, bars and quickslots): in typical principle I would normally agree. However: BW has arranged things this way for a reason. Give him credit: he knows very well what the common styles and preferences are in modern games, and he chose to arrange his interface the way he likes it. The only thing I'd have him change is the size of the screen/window: make it possible for people with larger screens (like myself and, I think, most gamers) to enlarge the screen beyond 1024x768 if you so desire.

* One other point of my own on inventory: I wish there were an option to split items by numbers, in places other than at shops . . . splitting my arrows one by one is dreadfully tedious . . . I've tried all different key combinations and found nothing so I assume you can't do it by numbers, only one at a time.* Ability to drop items: agreed. They could take the form of loot bags, like in other games.

* Diseases, curses, and poisonings -- as well as hunger & thirst & encumbrance -- are all listed in the statistics window. What's the problem, there?

* On books and such: Would require lots of extra programming, but I agree: this kind of stuff adds a lot to the world atmosphere/character/feel.

* On roofs: I mentioned this before, so I agree totally. There's no good reason I can see why roofs should not be there when you're outside of a building.

* Dialogue options: I agree totally. This comes down to character development. Once I finish Book2 I'm thinking of doing something with it to try to demonstrate how things could be done. But you'll all have to wait, before getting to see this.

* I agree that Eschalon's music is better than that of most games, though I still tend to leave it off.

* Finally: social skills have already been discussed. (Check the recent Persuasion/Diplomacy thread, I've given some of my thoughts on it there.) It's a nice idea, but I think probably too much work for its value in this particular game.


Again, thanks for your input, Moril. I'm always glad to see more people who have [fair] criticisms about the game, for one thing it takes the weight off me.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Thanks for your input and thoughts, Moril.

* Combat modes: these can be found at the bottom of the screen. Click on the sword icon. Finesse Mode will reduce damage but increase accuracy Power Mode will do the opposite (and is particulary useful if you've earned a specialization skill with your chosen weapon), Parry Mode will increase your AC though it won't let you attack -- this is useful in situations where, say, you have to get close to an enemy without being hit, or if you have to get through a specific area (for example, if you're searching for the Sextant at lvl 1) without being hit.

But you have an excellent point: more attack options is a good idea.

Evnissyen, this commentary is about Book I. Combat Modes are introduced in Book II.

[Evnissyen]

Evnissyen, this commentary is about Book I. Combat Modes are introduced in Book II.

Ah, yes. That and the non-existent hunger and thirst bars, and the screen-size which is, in this case, not 1024x768 but rather 800x600. Sorry about that.

One tends to get confused between the two of them, these days.

Well . . . "one" meaning me.

EDIT: But... now that I'm officially a Lieutenant, everyone is now required to forgive me.

...except for the several people who outrank me. These people are still technically permitted to beat me up, although I hope they don't.

[SpottedShroom]

Oh, and on Autotravel, what about random encounters ? (survival check, on fail spawn on a wood/crossroads/burntvillage/whatever map with one or multiple exits and an encounter of some sort, wandering merchant to goblin warband)

I think this is a great idea, and is going on my wishlist for Book III. I'm not sure the Fallout-esque implementation you mentioned would work, though. The game world is seamless, so inserting areas would be weird. I'd rather the game pick a map along your route, place you randomly on it and spawn some enemies.

Then again, I'd like to see Ultima-style random encounters even if you're not fast travelling.