I had an another idea for Book III. There could be a wind factor, which changes some things. For instance, it could blow arrows astray, whether they were yours or the enemies. It could perhaps, make casting spells harder, resulting in them costing more mana. Warriors have it easier, but if you have a light sword, it could make it harder to hit, or light armor, could become easier to hit. The wind could change degrees, and speed, changing the amount these things are changed by. There could, of course, be no wind which simplifies things until wind strikes up again. The advantages of wind could be-
For archers: Arrows could hit other targets, or they could aim to the left of an enemy and the arrow could either hit the enemy or hit to the left of the enemy. The number of tiles to the left would be determined by the speed of the wind. Arrows could also be carried with the wind into the target, causing them to do more damage.
For Mages: Spells could be split apart, hitting more targets than intended, but doing slightly less damage. The wind could also carry the spells towards targets, giving you the advantage of speed, so you could cast two spells at the opponent in one turn, or rather they would move 1/2 their normal speed (Only while wind is against them.)
For Paladins: Swords are built to defy the wind, so they have less dis-advantages. The armor is the same way, causing arrows or spells to hit you less often than they would with wind.
For Thrown weapons: Players using thrown weapons would have good advantages. If they throw a throwing dagger, it gains speed and gives the advantages of archers, and of mages. But if they threw a damaging potion, say a demon oil, it could miss the target entirely. This would be a bad thing, but the fire spreads rather than just stay in one place with wind. So, the flame could engulf your opponent from five squares away, but then you might be running from your own fire, depending on the direction of wind. Players using thrown weapons would have the same dis-advantages as archers.
We could also add a new skill, for camping vs. wind purposes. For the sake of this example, lets call that skill "Wind resistance." A player who camps when there's wind who has level 1 wind resistance, has about a 25% chance of staying where he is the entire night, or period in which he is camping. Every time, they percent chance increases by 1/2 of the remaining percentage left. So, they can technically get infinitely close to having a 100% chance of not blowing away, but never quiet there. But, one who has a high wind resistance skill, and is far in the game would be most likely to stay where they are. But, on the off chance that they do get blown away, they would be able to get back to where they were quicker. I think that having a wind factor could certainly spice the game up for newer players.
Thanks for reading, and considering!

Interesting ideas. I think perhaps a bit too complicated for Eschalon, at least some of the things. Certainly I think the idea of the wind moving your campsite around wouldn't work. Also, it would get complicated when you get around obstructions as to what they would do to the wind. Too much reality in the game means BW has to spend way too much time reprogramming the AI and effects, which means less time building the really great world we're all looking forward to in the climax of this series.

I do like the idea of wind levels affecting ranged combat though, similar to the inclement weather effects in Book II.

Ok, but if wind only affected rangers, than nobody would play as a ranger. I think to solve this problem, they might make rangers do more damage, so that it's worth not hitting every now and then.

I didn't say just rangers, but ranged combat in general, meaning many types of ranged spell and thrown weapons, also. It would lessen the massive advantage that ranged combatants of all types have over melee combatants.

Kreador: My assumption is that magic wouldn't be affected by wind. One is natural, the other is unnatural. Never shall they meet.

Vroqren: I do agree with Kreador, though, that it is an interesting idea; unfortunately I also agree with Kreador that it's too much complication for anyone's good.

I mean, to put it as simply as possible, regardless of gameplay effects: I want writing, writing, writing. Narrative and character. Anything extra that takes time and energy away from the writing is bad, in my opinion, even if it's really goddamn cool.

I don't know, rain already effects some spells (fire dart is half damage in the rain, for instance). If you're magically firing projectiles, wind could have some effect, although the lack of to-hit in magical assaults means it would have to be a different type of effect than you might have for thrown or bow weapons.

Really? Hmm... I didn't know that. You know, I think of the gravedigger's flame over my character's head which never goes out in the rain -- you have to use it when it rains because the rain and wind always blow out your torches, which is a great touch. To me: in RPG's in general, really, magic has always existed in its own realm, untouched by the laws of conventional reality.

Eschalon is only the first game I know where weather plays a role, but the Fire Darts being subject to the elements is something I never had any problems accepting.
But with those Fire Darts I'm not considering the darts themselves as magic, just the ability to shoot them. Once they're fired, they're entering the physical world for me.
So perhaps that Gravedigger's Flame is the strange one for me, but I haven't used it much, so I don't remember whether I was surprised to see it unaffected by rain, maybe I havent even used it in the rain.

As for Vrogren's suggestions, well, bad weather affecting things is already in the game, except it's the rain that gets most of the blame instead of the wind now. Apart from the windchill on the frozen wastes, I'm realizing now.
Isn't Eschalon already doing a great job incorporating all these weather effects?

Well, if you want my opinion, I feel that Gravedigger's Flame should be inoperable, or at least problematic, in Rain/Storm in much the same way torches are.

In general, I still feel like Magick is too powerful in Eschalon (esp. in Book II), so anything that 'nerfs' Magick and makes it more comparable to everything else in the game is good by me.

So, yeah - I think Gravedigger's Flame should operate like torches and should "blow out" or "fail" easily in Rain/Storm conditions.

Not me. It's magick fire...it should burn underwater if you wanted.

If it is too powerful as-is, then we can lessen it's effect: smaller radius of light and shorter burn times.

I don't find Gravedigger's Flame to be too powerful. For one, unlike Cat's Eyes, it means ENEMIES SEE YOU, TOO. And unlike a torch or lantern, you can't put the damn thing out and hide.

No, the spell is fine as is under "normal" conditions. I just think it should go out along with everything else during storms.

I can even 'fanwank' a rationale for that happening: Gravedigger's Flame is actually the opening of a small portal to the bowels of the Earth where the Earth's flame always burns bright providing light to an intrepid mage; but electrical storms "disrupt" that portal causing the Gravedigger's Flame spell to fail more often than not during severe storms.

I guess I just don't see why Magick using characters should keep getting all these breaks that non-magic using character's don't get - why should Mages be able to see during violent storms (at night) when no one else can?!

It just seems kind of unbalanced to me...
[shrug]

Exactly, there's an obvious strategic disadvantage here.
Which makes it a bit silly to talk about Gravedigger's Flame in terms of (strategic) power, because that implies an advantage. Gravedigger's Flame is merely a handy gadget, I don't see any balance issues connected with it. Magic carries you a little too far in Eschalon, I find, but in that debate you can ignore Gravedigger's Flame.

Like perhaps IJBall - nice story about the roots of the spell, I'm ignorant to all of that - I find it personally easier to see Gravedigger's Flame as belonging to the physical world once it's cast, although that floating in mid-air above your head makes that slightly more difficult than with Fire Darts.

Hooray!

Personally, in fact: I see Gravedigger's Flame as not really literally a flame but rather a magical essence that throws off light. Whether or not it throws off heat as well is never said, of course, but my guess would be: no.

That's a really cool explanation, I admit. But you'd have to spread that disruptive capability amongst all spells... which I might or might not be down with, depending on the balancing.

Well... because in a lot of RPG's, mages are absurdly weak. Personally, I love the fact that in Geneforge the most powerful character by far is the spellcaster. In movies, spellcasters are very frequently portrayed as superpowerful, yet in many rpg's, for some reason, they're super-weak. I see no reason at all why mages should be physically weak and should not be capable of wearing armor or wielding weapons more damaging than a pocket knife. The choices you make as far as what you want your character to concentrate on is one thing... deliberately weakening them, to me, makes no sense. (That is, unless your game provides an explanation for the powers of magic depleting the physical health of the character... in which case there must be a trade-off, that being: magic is notably more powerful than conventional weapons.)

Also, Lanterns work just fine in the rain, and give off much better light than Gravedigger's Flame, and can be extinguished when you want to hide from an enemy. Given that anyone can use one, I'd say that's a draw.