Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

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SharpXe
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Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by SharpXe » February 19th, 2014, 6:19 am

I wont spoil, but i got extremely strong feeling of major parts of game just missing.
Many areas looks like empty placeholders, large amount of areas are not bound by any quest or motive.

Also strong Déjà vu followed me constantly, same rangers in forest, same eggsacks near town.

Also i got extremely strong feeling of "radiant AI" or "skyrim" since containers drop loot based on my own level, not level of area, i always hated this, since it disallow skipping lowlevel areas, 99% of areas MUST VISIT AND CAN"T skip.

This just like fallout 2 without ability to travel to undiscovered locations.
Completely illogical quest of widget collection also is joke.

Foodcrafter and forager moneyfarm removed, without this only option to camp constantly at some area in order to get money, not really good turn.

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Leezar
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Leezar » February 19th, 2014, 7:05 am

SharpXe wrote:Also i got extremely strong feeling of "radiant AI" or "skyrim" since containers drop loot based on my own level, not level of area, i always hated this, since it disallow skipping lowlevel areas, 99% of areas MUST VISIT AND CAN"T skip.
Is this true? I always click the "locked random seed" option, because I do not think in any game you should be able to quickload-quicksave to get better loot. I do not see how character level based containers could work with a locked random seed?
SharpXe wrote:Foodcrafter and forager moneyfarm removed, without this only option to camp constantly at some area in order to get money, not really good turn.
Eh, I think that perhaps the spirit of the game is to make do with what you have?
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SharpXe
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by SharpXe » February 19th, 2014, 8:07 am

i never reseed, i tested by entering baasalt dunes on level 1 and level 5.

on level 1 random bodies spawned near mountain have nothing valueble.

on level 5 they have t1 rings and books.

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Sslaxx
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Sslaxx » February 19th, 2014, 8:16 am

I do get rather a "cut content" (or perhaps "running out of time/money") vibe, especially towards the end of the game. That said, some of what you say could possibly be bugs more than anything else.
Last edited by Sslaxx on February 19th, 2014, 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by wolf » February 19th, 2014, 8:43 am

I also think the game was significantly cut!

In the teaser they have the temple burst into fires.

Anyone can do that?

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Leezar
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Leezar » February 19th, 2014, 9:33 am

SharpXe wrote:i never reseed, i tested by entering baasalt dunes on level 1 and level 5.

on level 1 random bodies spawned near mountain have nothing valueble.

on level 5 they have t1 rings and books.
Well, I guess they could lock a number on each item, but depending on your level, that interpretation is different.
Like:
Rndnr----Lvl1 char----Lvl5 char
12323----Nothing-----Flaming sword of instakill
25436----1 gold-------5367 gold
wolf wrote:I also think the game was significantly cut!

In the teaser they have the temple burst into fires.

Anyone can do that?
Maybe we can make a formal request for two or three E3 Fathamurks?

Though, the map editor have been released. I am guessing we will get some added content, perhaps just not official...
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by BasiliskWrangler » February 19th, 2014, 9:57 am

This is the only post I'll make on this subject- arguing game design with players is a losing battle no matter how well you try to explain it.
SharpXe wrote:I wont spoil, but i got extremely strong feeling of major parts of game just missing.
Many areas looks like empty placeholders, large amount of areas are not bound by any quest or motive.
There are a few maps towards the end that were left intentionally sparse, so players could hunt and XP grind if they didn't think they were prepared to enter the end sequence. We chose to pack more content in the first 3/4 of the game rather than spread it out evenly, which helps players build their characters more quickly. There are also regions left intentionally missing (Fandugan, West Mirkland) that are meant to be areas that modders can fill.
Also i got extremely strong feeling of "radiant AI" or "skyrim" since containers drop loot based on my own level, not level of area, i always hated this, since it disallow skipping lowlevel areas, 99% of areas MUST VISIT AND CAN"T skip.
Nope, no radiant AI. Sure, treasure and monster stats increase the further you go, but it's all region based, not character level based. 99% must be visited? No. Like the other Eschalon games, there are a number of clever methods that you could use to skip a lot of the game. Book III is the most flexible of all the games, honestly.
Completely illogical quest of widget collection also is joke.
It is explained to you (both Lilith and Erubor) that Malkur uses forms of magick (energy) far more advanced than anything currently used in Eschalon. He is an engineer. The widgets are "strange objects to your eyes" that are needed to activate the locking mechanism to the secret tunnel north. These objects were scattered and hidden to keep the tunnel secure for Malkur's own use. I'm sorry that you feel it is a "joke". I'd be happy to give you your money back if you are unhappy with the plot.
Foodcrafter and forager moneyfarm removed, without this only option to camp constantly at some area in order to get money, not really good turn.
And yet several other very creative ways have been discovered to farm gold and XP (look at topic Skelly Farm).

I will not contribute anymore to this thread. Thank you for your input, SharpXe, I truly appreciate your honest feedback.
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by severian » February 19th, 2014, 10:42 am

If you like a comfortable midgame play Merchant.

This build has always allowed me to get the most of the game - easy 10 points for every trainable skill, comfortable exploring and getting extra XP - it`s easier to face 6 Lancer Spiders with the best armour set, and dozens of best flaming oil and other potions.

However, it makes me wonder, if the "money is a solution for every problem" attitude is the right one.
I was expecting this skill will be nerfed a litle bit, but - whoa - long live free market - and this is also quite right to me, leaving me with a dilemma.

Food spell and foraging were changed in a good way, although not that perfect, foraging should yield less stuff, have area pools for classes of items - like sulfur in caves and volcanic areas, bark in forests, etc.
But it should be also active during camping, maybe with less effectiveness, but still active.

As for "plot flaws" sharpXe complains - mixing of fantasy and hi-tech was used in some of the most memorable cRPGs world designs, like world of Might and Magic, Wizardry (6,7,8) and Arcanum, and even a recent Grimrock.
In Eschalon this is much more subtle, but if someone wants a pure tolkienesque world - just elves,orcs,drugs and rock&roll - there are plenty of other titles (IMHO generally much more boring).

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munster
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by munster » February 19th, 2014, 12:10 pm

It depends what you want to play this game for.

I'm playing the Eschalon series for the story, not because I want to grind out levels and rake in as much loot as possible.

You can do that: you can see if you achieve the various conditions to kill every enemy, or get the highest level character, or do it bare-handed, or whatever you like.

But Eschalon is not about "Can I become the highest level richest badass", it's about exploring the world and interacting with the characters.

If you want the standard "hack your way to glory" game, then that's perfectly valid. You pay money for a game to give you a certain experience, and if you're not getting it, then you're entitled to be dissatisfied.

But if you're expecting something that the game is not set up to deliver, that's a different matter.

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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by helivoy » February 19th, 2014, 1:01 pm

I played all three Eschalon games for the exploration and side quests. In this respect, Book 3 does not disappoint -- especially the clever secret areas -- and remains imaginative and atmospheric. There's a sense of a coherent universe here and I, for one, don't mind the mingling of SF and fantasy.

That said, Book 3 is the shortest of the three (2/3 the size of 1 and half the size of 2, going by number of game files after completion). Also, the ending relies too much on heavy infodumping and the wrap-up feels rushed. True, this config is modder paradise. But those of us who lack time and/or tools to do that have to rely on add-ons by the aficionad@s.

I think that if people are complaining it's precisely because Eschalon did set the Rogue-like retro-RPG bar high. Also, people may be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, as this is the last of the trilogy. So perhaps everyone will be satisfied if we get one add-on as rousing as Fathamurk was for Book 2. At the same time (*dons hat of writer, editor and publisher of SF*), I'm agog to see BW's effort in the SF direction.
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Vroqren » February 19th, 2014, 6:10 pm

BasiliskWrangler wrote:I'd be happy to give you your money back if you are unhappy with the plot.
Meaning it's likely Basilisk Games will have enough money to start another game?

Check out my walkthroughs:
Character: here
Book I: here

Book II: here
Fathamurk: here
Book III: here
SpottedShroom wrote:There's evil and then there's just being contrary to your own best interests

SharpXe
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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by SharpXe » February 20th, 2014, 5:43 am

My strong feeling is not frustration or unhappiness, actually going to buy game one more time as soon as any nonsteam update popup.

why widget quest is illogical:

1. oracur made secret passage, probably many years ago, that force player to visit multiple areas around world, player can't decide if he want to, he MUST.
2. alundar walled astral range just "recently", it looks like ordinary human, it can't be warlord for 200 years.
3. without alunar walls you can just travel to astral range in 10 minues and slay everyone and speak with dragon.
4. alundar harvest money from spice trading, there is absolutely no reason for him to wallup astral range...

i will just wait a bit for API or similar and fix thing i dont like myself.

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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by hakea » February 20th, 2014, 9:20 am

I must admit it seemed a bit short to me too. It felt like I was just getting into the swing of it when it suddenly ended.

I guess that, having paid twice as much as the last one, I was expecting a longer game. However, it was still good value and fun to play. The cost per hour of entertainment is still a bargain really. So thanks again Basilisk.

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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Solar » February 24th, 2014, 1:42 pm

I was also a bit bothered/disappointed that in the barbarian camp there's a gate leading north that you can open (and anger the guards by doing so) but if you go through you'll just get told that your fate awaits elsewhere. Might as well have said "we planned to have something here, but we eventually didn't."

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Re: Strong feeling of "half of the game cut before release"

Post by Palog » February 24th, 2014, 3:36 pm

Have made parts of the game as opening for future mods wasn't a good idea. It certainly created for some players the feeling of something missing. And it was pointless, modders will always find many places by themselves to insert new contents to the original game.

Otherwise even if it will be more handy for modders to add stuff to the original campaign, myself I never enjoyed that modding approach and much more mods that are totally new adventures even if shorter than the original campaign.

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