pronunciation of Eschalon?

[Evnissyen]

I don't think this has been brought up before, but... I've always pronounced the name [ESH-a-lon], which seemed natural to me and sounded good (well, it makes me feel like I'm saying "echelon", so that might be part of it), and also, I think, is in keeping with German pronunciation practices.

This wouldn't bother me if I hadn't gotten the impression that some people pronounce it [ESS-ka-lon].

So... Basilisk? Weigh in here... how do you pronounce it?

Or do you intend to leave it to our imaginations? Eh? Just to torment us? Or at least to torment me, if it happens that nobody else feels nagged by this? It wouldn't be a bad idea, I suppose... I guess in a way I probably deserve the torment, if only for being anal about pronunciations.

[CSR]

This is just my opinion, but Eschalon is a Greek loanword and means "distant land".

Neither of your spelling suggestions were correct: Ess-cha-lon
ch - like the ch in the German word "echt"
a - like the first a in "bargain"

The ch is a single letter in the Greek alphabet: Chi

[BasiliskWrangler]

We pronounce it:

"Eh-sha-lon"

but we'll never correct you if you pronounce it any other way.

[Evnissyen]

Ah, I feel better now. My pronunciation has been vindicated.

CSR: Franz Schubert's name, for example, is not pronounced [SKOO-burt]. Schön is not pronounced [SKÖN]. As for Eschalon coming from the Greek, though, I can't comment, since I know nothing about that language . . . an interesting suggestion, although there's only one person on these forums who can tell us why the game came to be known as Eschalon, and of any hidden meaning behind the name, if such might happen to be the case.

After all, BW might be hiding all sorts of interesting things from us, all of them hiding inside that one mysterious name.

CSR, again: Come to think of it, you might be partially right, in that, if memory serves me correctly, I think that "sch", in German, is sometimes pronounced either way? Well, whatever. I'm not all that eager to get into a discussion of a language I'm only scarcely familiar with, especially since it's really not that important now that my question's been answered.

(Boy am I glad it's not pronounced ESS-ka-lon. It just doesn't sound -- or feel -- as nice. Plus the effort needed to reconfigure my brain to new information like that is best not spent, I think.)

[CSR]

My main language is German, so there is no need to discuss German pronunciation in this topic. And I do speek Ancient Greek, so I do know what I am writing about.

As I said it is Greek. The Greek word for the afterlife in a spiritual meaning is "Eschaton". - εσχατον
Eschatos means otherworldly. - εσχατος.
If you don't believe me, have a look into the Holy Book.

Eschalon is a loanword, the adjective has been replaced. Instead of τον (ton) it is λον (lon). Which can be translated as "distant land".
As there is no "sch" in Greek, it is pronounced "ch" (not "k"). E - s - ch - a - l - o - n
Like Johann Sebastian Bach, "Bach" not "Bak".

But anybody can pronounce it as he/she prefers, as BW mentioned.

[CSR]

I begin to have fun thinking about the meaning of the word "Eschalon".

Another, astract idea came to my mind:
Eschalon could be a kind of past form of the Greek word "chalao" χαλαω. (An E at the beginning defines the future or the past). Chalao stands for "to relax, to flag", "the body is losing tension", "to open a door" and "to forgive".

This somehow fits to the theme of the game too, just like the description "distant land, afterlife" in my previous comment. "I" am regaining consciousness and find out that I have lost my memory and that I seem to be untrained. According to the letter I find, I notice that I used to be a skilled person ("losing tension" / "flag"). I begin to explore this strange new world, a new beginning ("open a door").

[Dragonlady]

We pronounce it:

"Eh-sha-lon"

but we'll never correct you if you pronounce it any other way.

Oh! I've been saying 'S-Kah-lawn'

Well, I'll try to change but it might not work in my ol' head.

[Evnissyen]

CSR: Interesting... he's looking for the Forgivement Door, or something. That could be the alternate title of the game. Hmm... too bad that between the Sirens-of-Titan-like notes-to-self and the short talk with dying brother, we get few useful clues as to this guy's past. (Or clues that I remember. I just picked it up again (and finished it) recently after a long break, and I don't remember much revelation at all about this guy that intrigued me... something about him being quite talented in a variety of battle skill (no mention of why?) and he found the Crux just lying on the beach as he was just strolling along, one day (again, no elaboration, not to mention whether or not said beach was infested with homicidal creatures and bandits at that point in time).

Then again, maybe Dragonlady's got the right idea... we should all come up with our own unique, weird pronunciations and even meaning for the game's title.

[renkin]

I always saw the "ch" as the sharp k-sound found in "chaos" for example, so Ess-ka-lon, as some mix of Swedish and English pronounciation. Something like: 'Ess' as in chess, 'ka' as in skull and 'lon' as in London.

[Evnissyen]

That's true; but the trick comes when you add the S. That's all I was trying to point out.

In Swedish, actually, even "sk" becomes an "sh" sound... although not in all dialects. Even the k alone, when followed by a soft vowel (e, i, ö or ä) becomes either a "ch" sound or an "sh" sound, depending on the dialect, but then again: some dialects still pronounce sk as the English sk, or the K as the English K. ...And one especially weird dialect takes the sk or K sound and turns it into a kind of "hywu" sound (all four letters combined in one sound). Same with the tj sound. (Thus tjugo, "twenty", becomes [hywuoo-go] rather than the prettier [shoo-go].)

...Don't know if Renkin is Swedish or not.

...But this just goes to show you that when it comes to various dialects: I can't possibly be authoritative if I try to pin down pronunciations. We really should probably just make it up as we go along. That's the English & American way, after all. (Can't speak for other nationalities.)

I think Stockholm Swedish is k=sh , sk=sh , tj=sh? ...Thus making it prettier-sounding.

[renkin]

Oh, I never meant to argue that I'm pronouncing it in a correct way. I only tried to explain how I pronounce it.

As for the other stuff, when "sk" becomes a sound of its own, it's the harder ch-sound in all cases I can think of, same sound as in the word sju (seven). Americans have trouble learning this sound. There are many cases, however, when "sk" is pronounced as a sharp k-sound following an s. For example: skola (school), s-ko-la. Also words where "sk" appears in the middle of the word: eskalera (escalate), ess-ka-le-ra. The last example is actually how I pronounce Eschalon, by the way, but with -lon at the end instead of -le-ra, of course.

And yes, I'm Swedish.

[Evnissyen]

Whee! I love meeting Swedes. Actually, I don't personally know any, except for lower-generations like myself, oh well.

I need a teacher, is what I need.

I thought sju was pronounced pretty much like like "shoo", except I suppose with a slightly longer "oo" sound . . . this is how I've thought I keep hearing it, anyhow. The vowel Americans really have trouble with is the ö sound, which seems simple enough to me, after a little listening, but probably sounds wretched to a natural-born Swede. It's a lighter (and, again, prettier, at least to me) sound than the German version (and again, I'm thinking of I think the Stockholm-typical accent and, I suppose, high-German), and when I pronounce German words this way to my brother, my brother, who's been learning German, gets irate.

I don't know any natural German speakers, either. Not my fault. I know people who speak Spanish, Portuguese, French.... No Germanic languages outside of English.

Again when I was talking about the k being hard or soft I was speaking in terms of it following what I call a soft vowel, such as e, i, y, ä or ö. So of course sko ("shoe" for anyone else) is going to be pronounced "skoo" rather than "shoe" (with a slightly longer and slightly deeper "oo". ...whereas the sj in sju is going to always be pronounced the same way as it is in sjö ("sea" or "lake" for anyone else)

...And again, the k-following-vowel sound again I have to add I understand depends on dialect, in situations where it follows one of those soft vowels.

But I don't see how sch becomes American-English sk... especially since, I believe, both sch and ch are loan sounds -- the first from Germany and the second from, say, France & America/England. ...Thus ch is pronounced, like the English/American/French ch. Thus how could you get confused on sch? Especially since sch in German is generally, in my observation, pronounced as "sh", since the S is added to transform the sound? Maybe different dialects have a different custom. CSR can enlighten me on the latter.

Blah, blah, blah.

By the way, Renkin... could you give me any enlightenment on how the dialects are divided? Methinks that the Lund region has that harsher-sounding dialect, and greater Stockholm perpetuates the softer-sounding dialect. I know nothing about the Skåna dialect. Something tells me, too, that the northerners have adopted the harsher dialect, but I've nothing to back it up. This is something that bugs me to no end.

[CSR]

Maybe different dialects have a different custom. CSR can enlighten me on the latter.

Sorry, but there are too many German dialects to list them all on this board. Several in Austria, several in Switzerland and plenty in Germany. Nö wohr.

I noticed that you have listed several possibilities to pronounce a CH. But one possibility is missing.

CH as in the word champagne is pronounced "sh". In chest it is a "tsh". In chaos it would be a "k".
In German, Greek, Hebrew and Arabic it is a "ch". It is an "aspirated palatal sound".
When a CH is combined with a S it is pronounced "sh" in most cases in German, but sometimes, with a harder s, it becomes "s" - "ch". E.g. bißchen or bisschen. biss - chen (Although this this would be pronounced "büschn" in some dialects - with a "sh". And sometimes "bisken" with "s" - "k".)
There is no "sh" sound in Greek. So - back to topic - this game would be pronounced Ess - cha - lon.

A little quiz: How would you pronounce "chuchichäschtli"?

[renkin]

Evnissyen:

I thought you were German, since you seem to know quite a bit of Swedish and German already. So where are you from, the US? You seem to have a great interest in language.

As for "sju", it's pronounced with the sj-sound, as opposed to the tj-sound (which is used in "tjena" (slang greeting) or "tjock" (fat), for example). However, there are actually two radically different ways to pronounce sj-sounds in Sweden. One uses the front of the tongue and sounds very much like the tj-sound (this is the way it's done in Stockholm, for example), while the more common one (and the one used in south-western Sweden where I live) comes more from the throat/back of tongue, and is very different from the tj-sound. If you've heard "sju" sound somewhat like "shoo", you've most likely heard the Stockholm-version of "sju". Mind, though, that it's still a different sound than the one that is often spelled tj. I would say the rolling R, the throat-sj-sound, U, and as you mentioned, Ö, are the most difficult sounds to Americans. Thus, "sju" is actually a difficult word to pronounce. The u-sound there shouldn't have any "bend" on it, like the English u. It is distinct and constant. Actually very much like Ö, but with a different lip shape.

As for dialects in Sweden, there are plenty, not just a "hard" and a "soft" one. Vowels, R-sounds, and sj/tj differ in many ways among the different dialects. As for Skåne, they are known for their "burring" R that comes from the throat, and their bending of vowels in strange ways.

[Evnissyen]

CSR:
[koo-kee-KAYSHT-lee]? Is chuchichäschtli even a word? Wow.
Anyhow, first: we weren't talking about the ß sound, and second . . . haven't they gotten rid of that letter? I suppose they've replaced it with a double s. As for the Esskalon pronunciation I suppose you're right if you're taking the Greek route, which I guess makes sense etymologically... I'll trust you on that one.

Renkin:
My grandfather was Swedish and for some reason that my father has never explained to me he decided to immigrate to rural Vermont. Now... I love Vermont, it's a beautiful state . . . in the summer. In the winter, well, I would not want to be dealing with -40°F weather (what does that translate to in celsius . . . -32° or -33°, I think?) and snowdrifts up to the second floor.

I grew up in Connecticut, which rarely sees temperatures below 10°F (-10°C?). Now I live in Boston which has generally the same climate.

I know very little German, only enough to be able to pronounce the words with very rough accuracy, plus just a few words. Swedish I've actually studied, but only a little bit. I can understand a certain amount of it when it's written (and therefore decipher Norwegian & Danish to a point); when spoken I've no clue, though, except for a few spare words & phrases.