As a rather JRPG player, I've been trying to enter the world of "western" CRPGs for some time now. If Eschalon: Book I is a good reference, I suppose I'll be delighted by the rest of classics. However, there are so many games that I feel doubtful as to what would be a good start point.
Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights, Wizardry, etc always pop up to be the best in the genre, so I guess I'd better start of with those. Would you recommend any particular one(s) to start with?
Among the games I've played to some extent and thoroughly enjoyed are Planescape: Torment (my absolute favourite of them all), Divine Divinity, Archanum, The Witcher and I'll be getting Dragon Age: Origins for Mac soon.
I must also confess that graphics, although not very important for most of you, do play a high role in my enjoyment of these kind of games. I don't know if I could enjoy playing some of those old roguelike, nethack games... The Infinity Engine on the other hand is a thing of beauty.
It's been a pleasure reading and researching the games on the impressive favourite and top 10 RPGs of all time threads here at the Drunken Lizard Pub!
CRPGs, where to start?
- CrazyBernie
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Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter nights are definitely good choices if you're looking for a good combination of story and artwork. I found with Baldur's Gate, that even though I never finished the first, I was able to jump right into the second game and played through to the finish. Neverwinter Nights was even easier for this as the second wasn't really related to the first.
Re: CRPGs, where to start?
What Bernie said. I wold probably rate Neverwinter Nights over Baldur's Gate, but whey both rock.
I'm just getting into roguelikes now, and even though the graphics are crap, they are surprisingly addictive
I'm just getting into roguelikes now, and even though the graphics are crap, they are surprisingly addictive
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Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Well, depends what you dig.
If you're looking for a difficult and really user-demanding old-school RPG (high maintenance and constant attentiveness required) then Baldur's Gate, I suppose.
If you're looking for a versatile D&D-based fantasy RPG that allows you to fully engross yourself not in just the story but the characters and also, to no small extent at all, the game world itself, as well as modern graphics, cool spells and cool special effects, and cool fighting moves: Nothing better than Neverwinter Nights 2, as far as the games I've played.
Maybe Dragon Age is better . . . I've yet to play it.
I got bored with Baldur's Gate pretty quickly, but NwN2 went straight to my heart and remains there. (NwN1, on the other hand, I found to be a drag.) But that's me, everyone else has a different opinion, and, to be honest: I think most people think my opinions suck lemons.
If you're looking for a difficult and really user-demanding old-school RPG (high maintenance and constant attentiveness required) then Baldur's Gate, I suppose.
If you're looking for a versatile D&D-based fantasy RPG that allows you to fully engross yourself not in just the story but the characters and also, to no small extent at all, the game world itself, as well as modern graphics, cool spells and cool special effects, and cool fighting moves: Nothing better than Neverwinter Nights 2, as far as the games I've played.
Maybe Dragon Age is better . . . I've yet to play it.
I got bored with Baldur's Gate pretty quickly, but NwN2 went straight to my heart and remains there. (NwN1, on the other hand, I found to be a drag.) But that's me, everyone else has a different opinion, and, to be honest: I think most people think my opinions suck lemons.
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Story and/or choice heavy stuff:
Baldur's Gate II & Expansion
Fallout 2
Planescape Torment
Arcanum
After exhausting those if you need more you can play the previous BG and FO. For more combat heavy stuff, but still similar:
Icewind Dale (the first mainly/only) & Expansion
Temple of Elemental Evil
Arx Fatalis
For the modern take on the single-person open ended experience, Morrowind and Oblivion will do the trick I guess. More so the former if you can stand ugly 3D characters. Alternatively, you can also try the Gothic games (not 3).
Deus Ex 1 is a good example of a successful blend of RPG with FPS, in ways that nowadays aren't attempted in favor of shallow, dumbed down gameplay.
For indie stuff, Spiderweb's games have story and depth comparable to some of the first in this list, but their interface is even more crude generally. The upcoming Age of Decadence is promising as well, their combat demo showed some good design, and some not so good aspects which will hopefully be fixed.
There are some JRPG-like games for PC as well. Anachronox is most excellent and relatively modern, while Septerra Core is an older but pretty good almost-indie effort (from a small studio of the time, now defunct). And freebies like Exit Fate. God I hope Good old Games adds Anachronox to their list.
Edit: I guess I forgot recommending other good random stuff that may or may not fit the traditional RPG genre so much. King's Bounty: The Legend, Risen, Space Rangers II, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, recent Bioware games like KOTOR, Drakensang: The Dark Eye (and sequels), etc. Just look up all these names on google, it will be easy to find information, or even go directly to youtube and see if the gameplay seems appealing to you (as long as you're sure the player does the game justice).
Baldur's Gate II & Expansion
Fallout 2
Planescape Torment
Arcanum
After exhausting those if you need more you can play the previous BG and FO. For more combat heavy stuff, but still similar:
Icewind Dale (the first mainly/only) & Expansion
Temple of Elemental Evil
Arx Fatalis
For the modern take on the single-person open ended experience, Morrowind and Oblivion will do the trick I guess. More so the former if you can stand ugly 3D characters. Alternatively, you can also try the Gothic games (not 3).
Deus Ex 1 is a good example of a successful blend of RPG with FPS, in ways that nowadays aren't attempted in favor of shallow, dumbed down gameplay.
For indie stuff, Spiderweb's games have story and depth comparable to some of the first in this list, but their interface is even more crude generally. The upcoming Age of Decadence is promising as well, their combat demo showed some good design, and some not so good aspects which will hopefully be fixed.
There are some JRPG-like games for PC as well. Anachronox is most excellent and relatively modern, while Septerra Core is an older but pretty good almost-indie effort (from a small studio of the time, now defunct). And freebies like Exit Fate. God I hope Good old Games adds Anachronox to their list.
Edit: I guess I forgot recommending other good random stuff that may or may not fit the traditional RPG genre so much. King's Bounty: The Legend, Risen, Space Rangers II, Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, recent Bioware games like KOTOR, Drakensang: The Dark Eye (and sequels), etc. Just look up all these names on google, it will be easy to find information, or even go directly to youtube and see if the gameplay seems appealing to you (as long as you're sure the player does the game justice).
Last edited by Al3xand3r on May 30th, 2010, 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- CrazyBernie
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Re: CRPGs, where to start?
I heartily agree... both Septerra Core and Anachronox kicked ass. I've been pondering for awhile now whether or not to pick up SC again. At the time I picked it up because Monolith was the publisher... and they were still putting out good games.Al3xand3r wrote: There are some JRPG-like games for PC as well. Anachronox is most excellent and relatively modern, while Septerra Core is an older but pretty good almost-indie effort (from a small studio of the time, now defunct). And freebies like Exit Fate. God I hope Good old Games adds Anachronox to their list.
I don't think I actually beat either one though... chalk it up to ADHD and too many games/working two jobs. *sigh*
Re: CRPGs, where to start?
I agree that Spiderweb games are really well writen, and if graphics are important, skip Avernum 1-3 (even if you're missing good games!). Try Avernum 4-6 or Genaforge 1-5 (big demos available).
From studios, if you liked Arcanum, Try Temple of Elemental Evil.
Fallout 1 & 2 should suit your needs too.
Nwn 1 & 2 are beautiful, even if they are really too linear for my tastes (you have to follow though all the chapters), and aren't using combat turn-based engines (so doesn't really count as good games to me! J).
Anachronox is really good too.
From studios, if you liked Arcanum, Try Temple of Elemental Evil.
Fallout 1 & 2 should suit your needs too.
Nwn 1 & 2 are beautiful, even if they are really too linear for my tastes (you have to follow though all the chapters), and aren't using combat turn-based engines (so doesn't really count as good games to me! J).
Anachronox is really good too.
- cal1s
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Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Really depends here what you dig for.
Great story, huge open world etc. then there is also the alternative option to play Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Or even try Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.
But, if you do want to play some old-school RPGs, then you should try Baldur's Gate, if you have a thing for D&D. But, since you said that graphics play an important role, I do not know if you really would enjoy Baldur's Gate. That game is from 1998 and, althogh very good for its time, the graphics may be a bit too old-dated for _new_ players. Baldur's Gate II on the other hand, has a much better resolution and you do not need to have played BG to fully enjoy BG2 (I also have played the oppposite order back then and it was a blast!).
Dragon Age: Origins, I can say, is a really awesome kick-ass RPG with a lot of old-school elements with modern technology, fully voiced etc. Especially the add-on "Awakening" expands the game and adds some more oldschool elements with a very nice storyline.
So my suggestions are:
Great story, huge open world etc. then there is also the alternative option to play Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Or even try Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.
But, if you do want to play some old-school RPGs, then you should try Baldur's Gate, if you have a thing for D&D. But, since you said that graphics play an important role, I do not know if you really would enjoy Baldur's Gate. That game is from 1998 and, althogh very good for its time, the graphics may be a bit too old-dated for _new_ players. Baldur's Gate II on the other hand, has a much better resolution and you do not need to have played BG to fully enjoy BG2 (I also have played the oppposite order back then and it was a blast!).
Dragon Age: Origins, I can say, is a really awesome kick-ass RPG with a lot of old-school elements with modern technology, fully voiced etc. Especially the add-on "Awakening" expands the game and adds some more oldschool elements with a very nice storyline.
So my suggestions are:
- Baldur's Gate + addons
Baldur's Gate 2 + addons
Neverwinter Nights + addon
Morrowind
Oblivion
Dragon Age
http://greywardens.com
Probably biggest Dragon Age fansite
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Officially supported by BioWare/EA
Probably biggest Dragon Age fansite
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Officially supported by BioWare/EA
Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Thanks a lot for all your replays. I'll be sure to check the Avernum and Geneforge series regardless of how shitty they look. Right now I'm still trying to finish my 1st playthrough of Divine Divinity, Planescape: Torment and Fallout, while waiting for Book 2 to become available on Mac Steam (hope there's a nice discounted pack!).
Baldur's Gate is my next target!
Baldur's Gate is my next target!
- SpottedShroom
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Re: CRPGs, where to start?
Given that Eschalon is an "old school" style RPG, I'm surprised not to see more mentions of the kinds of games that inspired it.
The Ultima series is excellent, and particularly Ultima 6 and 7 will feel familiar to Eschalon players. You can play Ultima 7 on any modern computer with Exult - http://exult.sourceforge.net/
I'm also pretty nostalgic for the SSI "Gold Box" series of D&D games, starting with Pool of Radiance. Very different from Eschalon, but also a good time.
The Ultima series is excellent, and particularly Ultima 6 and 7 will feel familiar to Eschalon players. You can play Ultima 7 on any modern computer with Exult - http://exult.sourceforge.net/
I'm also pretty nostalgic for the SSI "Gold Box" series of D&D games, starting with Pool of Radiance. Very different from Eschalon, but also a good time.