Book II design question

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Siemova
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Re: Book II design question

Post by Siemova »

Took a while to read through all that. :-p

For my part, please consider this a strong vote against limiting players' ability to save/reload. Not only could that ruin the fun and interest for some people (regardless of whether the current system does that for others), but it would also require a lot of work on the part of Basilisk Games which I would much rather see put into plot development, world-building, highly varied and interesting quests, etc.

Several people have touched on the real issue here, which isn't the ability to "exploit" saved games but rather the all-too-frequently unrewarding feel of Book I's loot system. Some players may not have minded at all, but others of us seem to have grown frustrated with so many chests/enemies giving poor rewards, even toward the end of the game. Personally, I still greatly enjoyed exploring Eschalon, but I do confess to having S&R'd a good number of times once I grew tired of receiving the same worthless loot over and over.

What I would suggest as a more appealing and constructive solution would be to refactor the loot system in such a way that the loot you get depends on 1) where you are, 2) what your level is, and 3) the container itself.

Each area of the game could have a range of loot quality assigned to it. Say, for instance, the scale is from 1 (worst) to 10 (best), so the beginning area might offer items in a range from 1 to 3.

Which level of quality you're likely to receive could then be affected by your level, in such a way that the higher level you are -- when you open each container, not when entering the area -- the better chance you have of receiving better loot, but in any given area you will not, as a rule, receive loot above (or below) the set range.

Particular loot sources, however, could have their own statistic which would essentially grant a bonus to your chances of receiving loot of greater value. Allow that sort of bonus to push you over the area's cap, and put it on things like bosses, well-defended chests, etc., and you have a pretty good recipe for keeping things stimulating. Better yet, maybe let containers define their own loot level ranges (using the default otherwise), so that an especially good chest might yield level 3-4 items in an area with a 1-3 range, or, conversely, a drawer in some pauper's house might never yield anything above level 1. Obviously, there are various ways to implement this, but I'm sure you see my point. We'd have some rough idea of what rewards to expect in various situations, and loot would in general improve with your character and your progress in the game -- staying relevant (not overly weak or powerful) while still remaining random.

I think this would discourage compulsive save/reload sessions, not by enforcing a bunch of arbitrary limits, but rather by keeping players engaged, more interested in pressing on to discover what else may be around the next bend than in trying to eke the best they can out of what may be perceived as a stingy system.

A greater variety of equipment wouldn't hurt, either! :D
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Mongolian
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Re: Book II design question

Post by Mongolian »

1) where you are, 2) what your level is, and 3) the container itself.
So beautiful. Such a perfect solution!
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Re: Book II design question

Post by Unclever title »

Mongolian wrote:
1) where you are, 2) what your level is, and 3) the container itself.
So beautiful. Such a perfect solution!
I Concur, I think this would solve or at least lessen the re-roll problem and still maintain a modicum of realism. Particularly 1) and 3).
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Evnissyen
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Re: Book II design question

Post by Evnissyen »

Um.. I suspect Mongolian was being sarcastic.

Anyhow, I do think that Siemova brings up some interesting ideas that I agree with... however, you still need to reduce the re-rolling factor. Adding an option to dictate how the loot is randomized sounds agreeable; but better, I think, just to fix the system. I don't see any advantage to the current system.

Honestly, as I've said before, I think that all sitting loot should be pre-determined or else determined randomly upon time of entry in that area. Loot from killed opponents should probably be more frequent (and foe-type-dependent, obviously), and determined upon their death, not upon the opening of the loot bag.

This is not 'purism', as somebody else put it, it's simply good design. Other games have done it this way... why not Eschalon?
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
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