Im playing as magic user and i find myself meleeing most foes anyway using buffs. Reason for it from my point of view is way to low dmg output per mana for spells or small mana pool/regeneration rate. (ive put all my points into int/perception 50/50)
d/m -damage per mana
Lets see what do we have:
Fire Dart - 1.5 d/m average.
Compress Atmosphere - 0.83 d/m (can affect few mobs around you, but lets take 3 mobs as more in close range isnt really usual situation - 2,5 d/m)
Deep Freeze - 1.08 d/m (only living target restriction)
Fireball - 0.91 d/m (can affect few targets but on average that will be 3 - 2,73 d/m)
Supernova - cant comment yet as i dont have it and dont know if according to description it hits all on screen or all in whole area...
Smite - 0.8 d/m
Mass Boil - 0.4 d/m (average amount of targets 5 - 2 d/m)
Sunder Flesh - 1.08 d/m
Fleshboil - 1.5 d/m
So, lets see. i have 33 int and 33 per i have 115 mana. Average on enemies i fight 50 - 100 hp and much more after that, yet mana pool doesnt increase even close to enemy hp increase rate...
So that means i have to spend all my mana for 1-3 foes (they can also resist spells which makes you run out of mana even sooner) and after that i need to flee and find safe spot to sleep. You might say that i should use mana pots, but then spell costs turn almost directly to gold since prices for mana potions are exorbitant...
Description of some attributes say they agument skills, but i tested it using artmoney programm to get me lot of stat points and check them, for example even at 100 dexterity bow skill or any other skill that it supposed to agument didnt change at all. So i guess all this agument talk is empty words...
Some attributes seem to yeald much more then others...
Str - gives weapon dmg,toxin resistance, hp and carry weight
Dex - To hit, armor
Endurance - all resistances,hp
speed - armor,weapon dmg
Int - minor increase in mana gains every lvl for mage (yet you dont gain that many lvls in game), elemental resist, allows to identify items better.
wisdom - minor increase in mana gains every lvl for healer, magick resist.
Per - Minor increase in mana total?, minor increase in mana regen, spot hidden things better??
concentration - minor increase in chance not to be interrupted during casting when hit?
So looking on all this you can see that physical attributes are certanly better and also you can see that physical combat is much easier then magick since you dont have to run away every time your out of mana.
My point of view how to solve that -
1. Magic relate stats/skills should increase spell dmg
2. Magic related stats/skills should reduce mana cost
3. Mana regen should be increased manyfolds for mages via stats/skill so it will be usable during combat.
Some balance feedback.
Re: Some balance feedback.
I thought the magic system in Book I was reasonably balanced in the earlier levels, but to some extent it did get progressively harder to become as effective as, say, an equivalent level fighter.
I think magic is always really tough to balance in RPGs - it often seems to go the way of AD&D and be more or less useless for the first few levels, and then rapidly change to being unstoppably powerful at higher levels.
In a multiplayer game this isn't really a problem, because the mage then just becomes an increasingly valuable member of the party, and you can force them to burn through their spells on a succession of easier monsters. In a single player game, however, this is a lot trickier to manage, I think.
Personally I think it's nice to have some sort of non-linear payoff by focusing in a particular area. So, if you can pile 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 mana points into a spell, perhaps it does 1, 3, 7, 15 or 31 points of damage. Those numbers are quite extreme, but you get the idea.
I think that extra skills to boost magical powers could be useful, but it tends to be tricky to make these into points-based skills - they feel more like AD&D feats, somehow. Another possibility would be the ability to "focus" one spell per level, which may be the same spell multiple times, which will improve the effect of that spell somewhat (increased damage, more healing, etc.). Or, perhaps styles of spell casting, like there are new styles of combat. So you have careful casting, which perhaps reduces damage but increases your chance of successfully casting, defensive casting, which acts like parry but similarly reduces the effect of spells, or reckless casting, which increases the chance of spell failure, and perhaps introduces a small risk of "catastrophic" spell failures, but also increases the effect of spells.
All these things allow mages to focus their craft, but at the expense of either increased risks to their character, or spending skill and attribute points. It seems like the sort of trade-off that RPGs are made of.
Anyway, just some random ideas, in case anything sounded tempting. It might well be too late to make these sort of changes for Book II even if BW does feel that it's a good idea.
I think magic is always really tough to balance in RPGs - it often seems to go the way of AD&D and be more or less useless for the first few levels, and then rapidly change to being unstoppably powerful at higher levels.
In a multiplayer game this isn't really a problem, because the mage then just becomes an increasingly valuable member of the party, and you can force them to burn through their spells on a succession of easier monsters. In a single player game, however, this is a lot trickier to manage, I think.
Personally I think it's nice to have some sort of non-linear payoff by focusing in a particular area. So, if you can pile 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 mana points into a spell, perhaps it does 1, 3, 7, 15 or 31 points of damage. Those numbers are quite extreme, but you get the idea.
I think that extra skills to boost magical powers could be useful, but it tends to be tricky to make these into points-based skills - they feel more like AD&D feats, somehow. Another possibility would be the ability to "focus" one spell per level, which may be the same spell multiple times, which will improve the effect of that spell somewhat (increased damage, more healing, etc.). Or, perhaps styles of spell casting, like there are new styles of combat. So you have careful casting, which perhaps reduces damage but increases your chance of successfully casting, defensive casting, which acts like parry but similarly reduces the effect of spells, or reckless casting, which increases the chance of spell failure, and perhaps introduces a small risk of "catastrophic" spell failures, but also increases the effect of spells.
All these things allow mages to focus their craft, but at the expense of either increased risks to their character, or spending skill and attribute points. It seems like the sort of trade-off that RPGs are made of.
Anyway, just some random ideas, in case anything sounded tempting. It might well be too late to make these sort of changes for Book II even if BW does feel that it's a good idea.
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Randomizer
- Captain Magnate
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: December 11th, 2007, 5:51 am
- Location: Wandering the Rift
Re: Some balance feedback.
Mage spells still have the benefit of always hitting which is great at low levels. The chance of save vs. spell is a problem so you need a clear line to retreat when you run low on mana. Still if you can attack and not take damage, then you are alway ahead.
Against melee fighters, I've found that with some thought you can run in a large circle to restore mana and then finish them off without getting hit. It's boring, but effective.
Weapons are more effective at higher levels since after buffing, you get to do damage without using more mana.
It's really how you want to play the game. If you don't have the patience to recharge or burn potions, then hack away.
Against melee fighters, I've found that with some thought you can run in a large circle to restore mana and then finish them off without getting hit. It's boring, but effective.
Weapons are more effective at higher levels since after buffing, you get to do damage without using more mana.
It's really how you want to play the game. If you don't have the patience to recharge or burn potions, then hack away.
Re: Some balance feedback.
I already decked out myself in heavy armor with +3 boost from alchemy Even having low str and other melee stats now i dont even bother to buff up to kill Raptors/acid grubs. If id stick with magick id had to run away to other region to rest after every kill... Donth think this perspective will fascinate anyone.
As i said earlier magick dmg is preey high and you can dispatch foes beofre they even touch you, but mana runs out extremly quick. Well since book 2 coming i guess adjustments were already made, will see how it will be there
Even having low str and other melee stats now i dont even bother to buff up to kill Raptors/acid grubs. If id stick with magick id had to run away to other region to rest after every kill... Donth think this perspective will fascinate anyone.As i said earlier magick dmg is preey high and you can dispatch foes beofre they even touch you, but mana runs out extremly quick. Well since book 2 coming i guess adjustments were already made, will see how it will be there