Discussion: possible alternatives to the saved game

[dare49devil]

That said, once the big lines are defined, it's basically what you do with your fan fictions; so give me, let's say, 4 CrazyBernies and I'm sure it would be doable!

-Ahaha.

[Christou]

...Children learn a great deal by example. It is not enough to encourage children to read. Parents must take the lead and be seen reading.

Very true!
The frightening point is next generation...

That said, once the big lines are defined, it's basically what you do with your fan fictions; so give me, let's say, 4 CrazyBernies and I'm sure it would be doable!

-Ahaha.

Hey D49D, hope you don't take this as serious! Was just a "clin d'oeil" to CrazyBernie good work!

[CrazyBernie]

I guess it would be long to develop for sure, but what? Today games with top notch graphical front end take ~3 years of dev and at the final you play it 20 hours and adios...
With an old school style (iso view) I guess an indie studio can spend the same time to dev the story and mechanisms required; but even, if the concept is well planned and tested and if the admin of the project do well his job, the hard part is to write down the world and the story (and mini stories in such case) through a ton of dialogues. That said, once the big lines are defined, it's basically what you do with your fan fictions; so give me, let's say, 4 CrazyBernies and I'm sure it would be doable!

Those "top notch" games usually have a team of 30+ people working on them 40-80 hours a week non-stop to get that 3 year mark. Then, if they actually create their own engine rather than license one, you can easily tack on 2-3 more years. Just look at E3.... you see games in development for 4+ years that still haven't hit the streets. To top that off, massive chunks of content usually get tossed out of the finished product because of production schedules. Now bring that down to an indie developer level... less than 20 people, usually less than 10... and don't assume that just because it's an isometric engine that it's going to be so much easier to pull off.

I don't agree; the author do have to *try* to think in all possible actions because even like this he will miss for sure something. It's the why of beta testing. Only BW could say how they missed the chest problem in EB1, but if he do something (whatever) to "correct" this in EB2, it's not for nothing. What I mean is eventually if he knew this would be a serious flaw, he would have done something before release...
To me the author of an RPG is like a DM, he need total control, else he cannot be sure to transmit the right "idea".

Well we'll have to agree to disagree then. There's nothing "flawed" about the chest rolling. The only "flaw" is people claiming that its a cheat and that it should be fixed. And an RPG author is more of a storyteller than a DM. A DM can make decisions on the fly... an RPG author lays the story out for the player to follow. Just like one can interpret the telling of a story differently, one can play through an RPG with a different perspective on how things should be.

Scripted sequences are of course the easy way. In my idea, I'd like one in the opening of the game and one at the final. Between these points, the player will have to decrypt the story in real time. I guess THAT's very hard at concept level. How to be sure the player will find the necessary informations to do the good relations between events and to build the puzzle...
Concerning realism, If the author don't do the job correctly, I wonder how a player could say the game is realistic...

NWN2 had a lot of scripted sequences, and they really helped move the story along and add atmosphere to the game... all depends how you handle them I guess.
Saying a game is realistic is not a problem... I have no issue with people who think that. It's the people who complain when it isn't realistic that really bug me. Of course it isn't realistic! It's a damn game! Whoever complains about something in a fantasy game being "unrealistic" needs to think long and hard about what they're actually saying and realize how silly they sound

Hey D49D, hope you don't take this as serious! Was just a "clin d'oeil" to CrazyBernie good work!

Just for the record... 4 CB's working on one project = total disaster. They'd either all be off doing their own things, or be too busy having a lan party to get anything accomplished. I can barely keep one of me under control.

[Christou]

Just for the record... 4 CB's working on one project = total disaster. They'd either all be off doing their own things, or be too busy having a lan party to get anything accomplished. I can barely keep one of me under control.

That's just because yet you don't know what is a whip for!

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Just for the record... 4 CB's working on one project = total disaster. They'd either all be off doing their own things, or be too busy having a lan party to get anything accomplished. I can barely keep one of me under control.

That's just because yet you don't know what is a whip for!

I'd say we just put Dragonlady in charge of the 4 CBs and she'll keep him in line.

[Dragonlady]

Just for the record... 4 CB's working on one project = total disaster. They'd either all be off doing their own things, or be too busy having a lan party to get anything accomplished. I can barely keep one of me under control.

That's just because yet you don't know what is a whip for!

I'd say we just put Dragonlady in charge of the 4 CBs and she'll keep him in line.

"I don't want to work today!" *CRACK* "Where there's a whip coming my way!" *CRACK* (sung to the tune in the cartoon version of Lord of the ring..)

[CrazyBernie]

That's just disturbing.

[realmzmaster]

CrazyBernie,

Resistance is furtile! All must bow and obey the Dragonlady!

[CrazyBernie]

CrazyBernie,

Resistance is furtile! All must bow and obey the Dragonlady!

I'm hoping you meant futile, and not fertile... 'cause that would be even more disturbing.

[Christou]

I guess this could be a nice Easter egg or even sub plot for EBIII; the 4CBs vs the Demon Goddess DragonLady quest... The character meet a CB completely drunk in a pub talking about his lost brothers used and abused by the Demon Goddess who kidnap them... Eventually the player could find a valuable Golden Whip after defeating the lusty evil DragonLady!
BW, what do you say?

[Kreador Freeaxe]

I guess this could be a nice Easter egg or even sub plot for EBIII; the 4CBs vs the Demon Goddess DragonLady quest... The character meet a CB completely drunk in a pub talking about his lost brothers used and abused by the Demon Goddess who kidnap them... Eventually the player could find a valuable Golden Whip after defeating the lusty evil DragonLady!
BW, what do you say?

But the twist is that the Dragonlady was good, and now the four crazy CrazyBernie's are going to wreak havoc on the nearest town if you don't stop them.

[CrazyBernie]

That's because who you thought was CrazyBernie was actually his archnemesis, SinisterKid!

[Dragonlady]

I guess this could be a nice Easter egg or even sub plot for EBIII; the 4CBs vs the Demon Goddess DragonLady quest... The character meet a CB completely drunk in a pub talking about his lost brothers used and abused by the Demon Goddess who kidnap them... Eventually the player could find a valuable Golden Whip after defeating the lusty evil DragonLady!
BW, what do you say?

But the twist is that the Dragonlady was good, and now the four crazy CrazyBernie's are going to wreak havoc on the nearest town if you don't stop them.

MWahahaaha! My plan of looking like a good-two-shoes is working!

Actually, I am a good Dragonlady. Have Silver dragon DNA.
Like slumming as a human with silver hair.

[realmzmaster]

CrazyBernie,

Resistance is furtile! All must bow and obey the Dragonlady!

I'm hoping you meant futile, and not fertile... 'cause that would be even more disturbing.

The mind fog lifts. Yes I meant futile! At least I think I did. Hmmmm! The mind fog descends again.

[realmzmaster]

Back to the topic at hand. The designer of the game is going to have to decide what type of save to use and how it will fit into the overall game world. The designer can also develop multiple ways to save the game and allow the user to decide what save to use at character creation. The user will have to use that method selected until the user starts a new game.

The problem is that creates a lot more work for the designer and the programmer. An indie developer usually does not have the available resources. But, you have a better chance of seeing different ways to save if the indie publisher can secure the resources. The large companies usually do not want to waste the time developing alternative saves when the product can be on the market making money.

The other problem is that an alternative save has to be sold to the public. A save that frustrates the user will kill sales.