Eh eh.
I agree.
After Gallifrey played the little demo, I hope we'll be able to do the same soon.
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BasiliskWrangler
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I think someone asked about difficulty before, but not specifically about a slider control.
No. Right now there is no difficulty control at all. I'll wait and see what the beta testers say about the overall difficulty, and most likely we would just manually adjust the difficulty up or down based on the feedback from the testers rather than put a slider.
But if we do put a difficulty control in the options menu, it would probably just be a toggle button that would switch between normal mode and easier mode, something like that.
No. Right now there is no difficulty control at all. I'll wait and see what the beta testers say about the overall difficulty, and most likely we would just manually adjust the difficulty up or down based on the feedback from the testers rather than put a slider.
But if we do put a difficulty control in the options menu, it would probably just be a toggle button that would switch between normal mode and easier mode, something like that.
That sounds like a good plan. I rarely use the difficulty change except for once in a while when I keep dying and I get tired of reloading to get through an area.
I would imagine its not a super easy thing to get the difficulty right in a game, not to mention so many people have different opinion on how hard it should be.
I would imagine its not a super easy thing to get the difficulty right in a game, not to mention so many people have different opinion on how hard it should be.
I don't know....
I like games where the difficulty level is not present (like in old school rpgs).
What I try to say is: a good implemented game should have easy and difficult task/enemies (like in real life).
If you are smart you try to solve/fight fair obstacles, but if you try to kill the dragon at lvl 0 with your shovel.... well, you die.
Putting in a difficulty slider could be like putting in a way to cheat.
I'd prefer to start the game knowing I need to grow my char and study very well his stat/skill advancments to solve hard quests and explore area full of strong monsters.
So, if I know a dragon lurks in that cave and I'm lvl 1, I'll turn on my feet and go exploring other places.
When I'll be lvl 20, perhaps I'll try to enter the dragon cave to fight the monster and gain tha treasure.
And about treasure..... Please no treasure scaling/randomization.
If I defeat the dragon in a hard fight, I'd like to find really special tresures in its cave. I've worked hard to reach the lvl 20 and I expect to find something rare or uniqe instead of a random loot.
If I killed the dragon at the beginning of the game swapping the difficulty from hard to easy and got the uber fire sword, then I'll play the rest of the game inbalanced.
Sorry for my rusty english.
I hope I've managed to explain my thoughts.
I like games where the difficulty level is not present (like in old school rpgs).
What I try to say is: a good implemented game should have easy and difficult task/enemies (like in real life).
If you are smart you try to solve/fight fair obstacles, but if you try to kill the dragon at lvl 0 with your shovel.... well, you die.
Putting in a difficulty slider could be like putting in a way to cheat.
I'd prefer to start the game knowing I need to grow my char and study very well his stat/skill advancments to solve hard quests and explore area full of strong monsters.
So, if I know a dragon lurks in that cave and I'm lvl 1, I'll turn on my feet and go exploring other places.
When I'll be lvl 20, perhaps I'll try to enter the dragon cave to fight the monster and gain tha treasure.
And about treasure..... Please no treasure scaling/randomization.
If I defeat the dragon in a hard fight, I'd like to find really special tresures in its cave. I've worked hard to reach the lvl 20 and I expect to find something rare or uniqe instead of a random loot.
If I killed the dragon at the beginning of the game swapping the difficulty from hard to easy and got the uber fire sword, then I'll play the rest of the game inbalanced.
Sorry for my rusty english.
I hope I've managed to explain my thoughts.
furor vincit omnia
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BasiliskWrangler
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gragnak: that is how I feel and that is exactly how Eschalon is. The game does not scale itself easier or harder based on your ability as a gamer. We just made this game world and let you explore it on your own...if you wander into danger, that's your problem, not ours.
Right now we do not have plans for a difficulty slider or button. In my post above I was just suggesting that if there was a large discrepancy between players who thought it was too hard vs those who thought it was just right, I may consider a toggle-button option that would reduce creature difficulty by 10%. However, if a difficulty button is needed, it's more likely to be part of an update after the game is released rather than something we'd work on now.
Right now we do not have plans for a difficulty slider or button. In my post above I was just suggesting that if there was a large discrepancy between players who thought it was too hard vs those who thought it was just right, I may consider a toggle-button option that would reduce creature difficulty by 10%. However, if a difficulty button is needed, it's more likely to be part of an update after the game is released rather than something we'd work on now.
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Adjustable difficulty is a good thing to have when character creation and development is very open ended. When the game allows any sort of character to be made, the devs can not balance every fight to match every possible character build, so what happens is some fights become laughably easy or impossibly hard, and it can be with the same enemy.
Being able to adjust the difficulty can provide a far more enjoyable game experience for a player, as the challenge can be tweaked into line with the character being used.
Being able to adjust the difficulty can provide a far more enjoyable game experience for a player, as the challenge can be tweaked into line with the character being used.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning. And the sea's asleep and the rivers dream … People made of smoke and cities made of song … Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold!
Yes.
It is possible.
But we are talking about an old school rpg.
So I presume a lot of gamers will play Eschalon looking for old school features.
Old school rpgers =
- those who read the manual a couple of time
- those who study which skill and which characteristic to improve.
- those who look for different and innovative solutions to solve a difficult quest (they do not complain if they can't kill the monster with the sword. They try to set a trap, poison its food, bypass it using invisibility, etc).
- those who have the patience to wait a lot of time before trying to enter the catacomb impossible at lvl 1.
- those who like to spend a lot of time on a quest looking for different solutions without searching the net for a walkthrough.
- those who restart the game with a new character after they have understood waht was wrong with the first one.
If you build a good character you'll find the game difficult at the beginning and easier as soon as you start to grow up in level, but always challenging.
If you play like a Diablo player, building your stats / skills without some brain, you'll find the game harder and harder.
Personally (and I underline this is only my personal opinion), I'd prefer a game requiring a lot of brain in character building. Good for old crpgers and difficut for those who look for another hack 'n slash game.
A game where you have to think...
I look for a challenge!
If you are able to build a good caharcter, you'll finish the game.
If you aren't, you'll never finish it.
Well, I know you have to consider also the commercial side and need to produce a game playable for everybody.
So perhaps a difficulty slider will help a lot of people who prefer to play avoiding challenges.
It is possible.
But we are talking about an old school rpg.
So I presume a lot of gamers will play Eschalon looking for old school features.
Old school rpgers =
- those who read the manual a couple of time
- those who study which skill and which characteristic to improve.
- those who look for different and innovative solutions to solve a difficult quest (they do not complain if they can't kill the monster with the sword. They try to set a trap, poison its food, bypass it using invisibility, etc).
- those who have the patience to wait a lot of time before trying to enter the catacomb impossible at lvl 1.
- those who like to spend a lot of time on a quest looking for different solutions without searching the net for a walkthrough.
- those who restart the game with a new character after they have understood waht was wrong with the first one.
If you build a good character you'll find the game difficult at the beginning and easier as soon as you start to grow up in level, but always challenging.
If you play like a Diablo player, building your stats / skills without some brain, you'll find the game harder and harder.
Personally (and I underline this is only my personal opinion), I'd prefer a game requiring a lot of brain in character building. Good for old crpgers and difficut for those who look for another hack 'n slash game.
A game where you have to think...
I look for a challenge!
If you are able to build a good caharcter, you'll finish the game.
If you aren't, you'll never finish it.
Well, I know you have to consider also the commercial side and need to produce a game playable for everybody.
So perhaps a difficulty slider will help a lot of people who prefer to play avoiding challenges.
furor vincit omnia
What gragnak is saying matches exact my opinion. Especially the: "Fight the dragon only to find another +2 sword and some coins..what a waste of time" thing! That really kills the fun.
If it shows up that Eschalon IS too hard, (even for us hardcore RPGers...ehm..) well they can easily patch it (for that part i love the modern times).
If it shows up that Eschalon IS too hard, (even for us hardcore RPGers...ehm..) well they can easily patch it (for that part i love the modern times).
"FUL IR"
Figuring out if it is too hard (or too easy) is part of what the beta testers are supposed to do. If I can't do it after 24 hours trying, I generally consider it 'broke' .. although in some cases it is supposed to be that way (e.g. in Avernum there are several areas you can see, but never reach, and in most of the Spiderweb games there are traps/levers/doors etc. which require insane lockpick / magic skill to open or disarm. Typically they are empty, or things you don't require (but it does keep you going back and trying again).)
There also tend to be 'optional areas' where you can go fight the uber-monster if you really feel you need to (and collect some otherwise unavailable, but entirely unnecessary, items) .. those are not on the main quest line though.
There also tend to be 'optional areas' where you can go fight the uber-monster if you really feel you need to (and collect some otherwise unavailable, but entirely unnecessary, items) .. those are not on the main quest line though.
I don't play games to be challenged to the breaking point in frustration, nor do I like cake-walk that insults my ability to play a character. What really annoys me in RPGs is constant reloading. How is thar role-playing? In PnP when you die that's it, you're done. So it always mystifies me when people seem to think that having to constantly reload battles is somehow better.
That said, I also know how disappointing it is to face a notable enemy and cleave through him with little effort (a good example is the Darth Nihilus fight in KOTOR2 - that guy is so built up, apparently devours planets and he's a total pushover). which is the other side of the issue. Being too easy is just as bad as being too hard.
Striking the right balance is pretty important. If a game frustrates me too much I'll just stop playing, which is kind of a shame, but I play for fun not annoyance.
That said, I also know how disappointing it is to face a notable enemy and cleave through him with little effort (a good example is the Darth Nihilus fight in KOTOR2 - that guy is so built up, apparently devours planets and he's a total pushover). which is the other side of the issue. Being too easy is just as bad as being too hard.
Striking the right balance is pretty important. If a game frustrates me too much I'll just stop playing, which is kind of a shame, but I play for fun not annoyance.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning. And the sea's asleep and the rivers dream … People made of smoke and cities made of song … Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold!
I agree with you Gallifrey.Gallifrey wrote:I don't play games to be challenged to the breaking point in frustration, nor do I like cake-walk that insults my ability to play a character. What really annoys me in RPGs is constant reloading. How is thar role-playing? In PnP when you die that's it, you're done. So it always mystifies me when people seem to think that having to constantly reload battles is somehow better.
That said, I also know how disappointing it is to face a notable enemy and cleave through him with little effort (a good example is the Darth Nihilus fight in KOTOR2 - that guy is so built up, apparently devours planets and he's a total pushover). which is the other side of the issue. Being too easy is just as bad as being too hard.
Striking the right balance is pretty important. If a game frustrates me too much I'll just stop playing, which is kind of a shame, but I play for fun not annoyance.
I want a game to strike the right balance where there is some challenge but not so hard I have to start the game all over again with a different character. I just don't have the time for that anymore:) I don't want it easy, but not insanely hard either.
I dont wan't a difficulty slider that makes the combat way easier or makes the game really easy, just something like Basilisk said about making it 10% easier I might use only occasionaly when I cant seem to defeat a certain enemy and advance the game.
As Gallifrey said, it gets frustrating if you keep dying and having to reload over and over, when this happens in games I get bored and lose interest.
Im also not stating I don't like to use my brain, I am the last person who wants hack and slash, but I also need to be able to move the story along or it gets boring.
Hopefully the game will be well balanced and won't have a need for a difficulty slider..
"Fun" is the key work as Gallifrey stated.
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BasiliskWrangler
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Well, I think we are all in agreement then. 
The problem we face is this: How do you maintain the same challenge level for a "master" RPGer who decides to play the game as a pure Fighter, compared to a novice RPGer who thinks it's a good idea try a pure Mage for the first time?
The way Bethesda did it was to scale the world's difficulty according to the player's ability, and there's no way we're doing that. That goes against everything Basilisk Games stands for. So, we have to make a game that is going to fall right in the "medium difficulty" zone...one that might seem rather easy if you are a player who is a master of character building, but would be extremely tough if you don't know much about character building.
The problem we face is this: How do you maintain the same challenge level for a "master" RPGer who decides to play the game as a pure Fighter, compared to a novice RPGer who thinks it's a good idea try a pure Mage for the first time?The way Bethesda did it was to scale the world's difficulty according to the player's ability, and there's no way we're doing that. That goes against everything Basilisk Games stands for. So, we have to make a game that is going to fall right in the "medium difficulty" zone...one that might seem rather easy if you are a player who is a master of character building, but would be extremely tough if you don't know much about character building.
It's not hard to scale a game, simplistically at least. Just give 2x the hit points to all the opponents, and that'll take a game up to 'challenging' for even the good RPG character builders (if it was reasonably medium to start with).
Ok, for replicating monsters of any kind, where you really have to take them down faster than they multiply, it may kick it way up to 'insanely difficult', but such is life. 8>.
Ok, for replicating monsters of any kind, where you really have to take them down faster than they multiply, it may kick it way up to 'insanely difficult', but such is life. 8>.
