pick locks vs. bludgeoning weapons?

[sh4dow]

i was just thinking about how to distribute future skills (and/or which to buy) and it seems to me that the percentage of lockpicking goes up only slightly per level while you can bash objects fairly easily?

example: i have currently three points in both pick locks and bludgeoning weapons. i came across a "good iron lock", 20% chance to pick. which of course will usually use up an unacceptable amount of lock picks. but with my trusty iron hammer, i burst it open with the hammer just being degraded to ~1/3.

is there a certain quality of locks where e.g. 10 points in pick locks makes more sense than 10 points in bludgeoning weapons and a hefty hammer?

[Painted Lady]

Bashing things with a weapon creates stress on the weapon, and it will eventually break.

[KillingMoon]

About every lock can be bashed open, so you're not restricting yourself all too much by not investing in picking locks.

That doesn't mean I'm recommending to rather invest in bludgeoning weapons, because there is a trainer in this weapon skill on the map, and every trainer can teach you up to level 8. Accepting training means investing money rather than experience earned skill points.
I don't know quite where you are in the game, of course...

On a side note, a 1 in 5 chance to open a lock wouldn't be that bad for the more difficult locks in the game. Obviously this 'good iron lock' isn't one of the more difficult ones, but if confronted with a real challenge you're probably better off losing a couple of lockpicks - they can be bought at many places - than to invest more skill points.

[sh4dow]

@ painted lady: which is why i wrote about how much my weapon degraded...

@ killing moon: but that's the whole point - to be able to pick complex locks, i would have to invest heavily in the pick locks skill anyway. and i don't have the benefit of buying some.
with pick locks, if i invest 10 more points, i might not be able to crack locks as easily as with a decent hammer and 10 more points in bludgeoning weapons. PLUS, i can train a couple of points in bludgeoning weapons, which means even more of a benefit over pick locks.

but i am concerned over the really strong locks. whether that advantage shifts at some point and you are simply not able to bash those locks any more. i e.g. came across a door where i think i only had 6% chance to pick the lock but my hammer wouldn't even make a dent. in that case, those 6% are better than nothing.

[KillingMoon]

Yeah, to play as a rogue successfully you need to invest quite a few points here and there, while a warrior has an easier time of it, that's true.

To be a bit more complete, there is a trainer in picking locks also on the map, but not so easy to find, and accepting his help means failing a quest.

Other relevant point: with 10 points invested in a weapon you get a special weapon feat, that is for most weapons a really good upgrade. The one for bludgeoning weapons is very good if I'm not mistaken, so it's worth beelining to those 10 points, if you're going for bludgeoning weapons anyway.

[sh4dow]

oh i'm not playing as a rogue, i'm playing as a sword fighter. which is why i want to invest as little as possible into anything that isn't heavy armor, shields and swords.
but of course i'd have the strength to boost bludgeoning weapons even more.

as for the picking locks trainer - i am aware, which is why this is not an option to me. i'm not willing to abandon that quest.

well... i guess bludgeoning weapons it is then. hope i'll be able to break down those doors with a couple of more points.

[KillingMoon]

I thought doors and chests could be broken with a sword as well, though, albeit with more damage to the sword.
Are you saying you are investing points in both swords and bludgeoning weapons???

[sh4dow]

the damage to the sword is so ridiculously high that it's not even worth trying in my opinion.

as for investing points in both: not until now, no. but moving forward - of course. that's what all of this was about.

[edit]seems like it'll be worth it. was faced with a 6% lock, tried out increasing my bludgeoning skill from 3 to 9 and buying a hammer that has 5 instead of 3 base damage => bashed it down without having to repair the hammer.
now if i would have tried opening this door with lock picks instead, i bet it would've taken an increase from 3 to 15 so that i would even get to a 50% chance.[/edit]

[SpottedShroom]

If you're completely nuts, a single rank in Unarmed will let you bash in most doors, chests, etc. It'll just take a really, really long time. I'd perhaps like to see a few more unbashable items in Book III to reward people who take Pick Locks, but I think it's okay as-is. Certainly there are plenty of way, way worse skills.

Of course, there's really no reason why you wouldn't want your character to take some Elemental, at which point you can just Melt the locks open.

[sh4dow]

as far as worse skills are concerned - maybe but seeing as you gotta have a way to open chests/doors if you want to play an RPG efficiently, i find the pick locks skill really underpowered. i mean... i'm currently level 8 and in order to open everything i've encountered so far with decent chances, i would've had to invest ALL skill points into pick locks. how the hell are you supposed to play like that?
sure, if it was multiplayer, you could play the "key master" and nothing else. that would surely be a lot of fun...

as far as unarmed is concerned - does how long it takes rely more on the unarmed skill or strength?

and melting the locks - somebody wrote this in another thread... which sounds plausible to me:
"Lock Melt will need to be cast at higher levels for harder locks. Meaning you will need to add to your Elemental + Intelligence for some locks. If you're playing a mage, that shouldn't be a problem. But for a fighter, you may still end up bashing higher level locks even with Lockmelt."

[Randomizer]

Unarmed combat unless you specialize in it takes a long time however there are rings so you can get the skill without using skill points or get the book and best of al you don't need to waste time repairing the weapon.

[sh4dow]

well... but so far, rings have been rather rare and low in power. until i get a ring with +5 unarmed or something (if that even exists), i bet i'll still be better off with my hammer...

[Randomizer]

Brawler rings are +2 unarmed combat. There isn't anything but weapons with damage pluses that will be better and you'll be really upset when your 20,000 coin weapon becomes weapon fragments.

[sh4dow]

why should it? it's not exactly hard to keep track of the state of a weapon and repair it...

and i wonder how long it would take to bash in a door with a great lock and just 4 points unarmed combat...

[Evnissyen]

Umm... if I remember correctly, don't you get a small amount of XP for successfully picking a lock?

Locks were never a big deal for me. Just invest wisely. Maybe if I'd been playing some kind of warrior tank... .

Besides, it's more fun to pick a lock than bash the thing to hell... and... of course, picking a lock you don't end up with fragments of whatever delicate material was in there.