The Drunken Lizard Pub

Michi wrote:Hi,


Some suggestions, off the top of my head:
1. Mercantile should never let you buy / low sell high. The shopkeepers need to remember how much you sold them an item for, and they shouldn't sell it back to you for less. And vice versa. Basically, have mercantile let me sell a looted item for more based on skill, and get good discounts on newly bought items, but not the whole exploit thing.

2. Trainers need to be tapered down in a big way. 8 levels, given the way skills work, is WAY overpowered. And 3,600 gold given the easy way to make money, is just too cheap.

With respect to both one and two, you (the player) chose to purchase the mercantile skill and pump it up and chose to use the trainers. In other words, the game mechanics didn't force the player to do something they didn't wish to do with their own character. You can make the game as challenging or as easy as you wish.

Just because those mechanics are there, does not mean you have to take advantage/abuse them.

This is what I love about the game. It gives the players choices and lets them decide for themselves if they intend to use them or not. It is entirely in the players hands, as it should be, IMHO.

In my last play-through of Book 1, I didn't purchase the mercantile skill and had a heck of a time with money. Most of the gear I used I picked up from crates, etc. I was playing a down-on-his-luck barbarian.

With Book II? The sky is the limit on character development. Kudos to the developers for allowing me the flexibility to develop a character as I see fit.

Did someone say Ham Sandwich??

Lhoric wrote:Did someone say Ham Sandwich??

And perfectly balanced, at that.

Candew wrote:

Michi wrote:Hi,


Some suggestions, off the top of my head:
1. Mercantile should never let you buy / low sell high. The shopkeepers need to remember how much you sold them an item for, and they shouldn't sell it back to you for less. And vice versa. Basically, have mercantile let me sell a looted item for more based on skill, and get good discounts on newly bought items, but not the whole exploit thing.

2. Trainers need to be tapered down in a big way. 8 levels, given the way skills work, is WAY overpowered. And 3,600 gold given the easy way to make money, is just too cheap.

With respect to both one and two, you (the player) chose to purchase the mercantile skill and pump it up and chose to use the trainers. In other words, the game mechanics didn't force the player to do something they didn't wish to do with their own character. You can make the game as challenging or as easy as you wish.

Just because those mechanics are there, does not mean you have to take advantage/abuse them.

Yes, I agree that I chose to test and then abuse a game mechanic. I test that mechanic in every game that has a "barter" skill. Can't help it

Anyway, I am going to start playing again and limit my Mercantile skill to 15 or perhaps never raise beyond a combat skill or something. I hate self-imposed challenges though.

All that said, I think a better point was made in the now-locked thread on trainers/books in that it encourages a counter-intuitive way of creating and leveling a character. A char that wants to play a swordsman shouldn't be encouraged to hold off on leveling his skill because there is a trainer with a level 8 limit 2 towns away .... books and trainers should blend in with the leveling that char is already doing, somehow,

And, I agree ... great, polished game.

Someday, it would be great to control a party
Michi

don't care for the rain affects.

I'm aggravated enough already trying to navigate around trees into areas i can't see merely a move mouse and hope trial&error, that the constant raining and night time really limit the amount of exploring one can do. instead of being fun it is a major PITA (pain in the anterior).

agnari wrote:don't care for the rain affects.

I'm aggravated enough already trying to navigate around trees into areas i can't see merely a move mouse and hope trial&error, that the constant raining and night time really limit the amount of exploring one can do. instead of being fun it is a major PITA (pain in the anterior).

Use the brightness booster in the options menu.

I have to say that I LOVE IT!!

I waited none too patiently for Book II to come out after I blundered across Book I on D2D.....

....after consuming Book I, I realized I had to have a Book II, and thus started lurking these forums for basically ever. The whole reason I registered was to let everyone know what I blast I'm having and now....yes.....I'm already salivating at the prospect of Book III.

My thanks to everyone who had even a wee bit to do with this game - it was really neat to read the texts of some of the books and realize with surprise that I had seen it in another form on this forum. Bravo!

Admittedly, I am coming into this discussion with a strong general game developer background and not an RPG background. So, while I cannot speak for how RPGs are "meant to be played", I would like to share my insight.

When I play any game at all, I expect to be able to use all of my mental faculties. Frankly, I do not like the idea that a game leaves a huge opening for abuse and expects the player to simply decide for himself whether he will abuse a particular mechanic. That, to me, is a blatant balance issue that needs to be addressed. If I want to abuse game mechanics, I'll bust out the cheat codes. I don't think the game itself should leave such a huge exploit available.

I like playing computer RPGs (I am not a big fan of dice RPGs). I have no problem with one path being more/less difficult than another in terms of character progression, but there really should not be a path that lets you shred the difficulty just because. I want to play the game as intelligently as possible, and I want the game to push back (make it difficult, make me regret certain decisions, etc.). I love going back and playing games a second time to experiment with new paths (new class, new build, etc.), but having to willfully shun a known exploit would taint the experience.

I am new to the world of Eschalon, so I cannot speak for the balance of the game, but from what I'm hearing, it is something that really ought to be addressed. Being a single player game, I digress that balance is not as important as it would be in a multiplayer version.

The game is really awesome =]

However I would like to point out one thing that could be improved in the
next Book:
[Keep in mind that it's just my opinion and others may or may not agree]

- Trying to find specific items at merchants can take way too much time.
The items that are in offer on a weekly basis are randomly generated, making it either a lottery or a boring task of saving/loading the game if you are not lucky.
[Since it is a solo game - I don't see a point for there to be 5 scrolls of bless or 3 identical gloves for sale at a time,
I know its random, but I would prefer to have different items to choose from instead of few of the same kind.]
An idea I have to improve on this would be to increase the number of items that are in offer. I know there is limited space, and a few empty slots have to be empty for the player to sell his items, but maybe an arrow to go to the next page of offered goods would be a good improvement.
[Don't get me wrong - I don't mean that the shops should display all possible items at a time and not change/restock every week.]

Edit:
Or how about this for a solution: have an option to place an order / craft an item you wish to acquire in exchange for a nominal fee / price increase.
A list of prefixes and suffixes (if thats the correct term) could appear and you choose:
- Armor - Gauntlets - Dwarven steel - +2STR
- Spell - Elemental - Fireball

I have just read this series of thoughts and have to laugh. I have found after my second run through that everything in the abilities and character atributes are connected, whether in generating more hit points, having a bit more resiatanct to attacks or even the pace at which Mana points are regenerated.

I have enjoyed myself and plan several more runs through the game as different characters. I know I have not explored every accessable area of the game yet and have seen some areas that may only be accesable later.

BW and group keep up the good work and Lord British, eat your heart out.