The Drunken Lizard Pub

CrazyBernie wrote:I don't really see how it's overpowered... you have to spend an awful lot of time camping to take advantage of it. Perhaps BW just needs to increase the rate of random encounters so that people can't camp for 30 hours at a time... or make certain areas like dungeons not produce alchemical ingredients.

Or.... maybe adding miscellaneous items into the foraging pool... rotted meat, weapon fragments, the occasional fork...

This.

That would also make it more worthwhile to spend points/money on the repair skill. Otherwise you can just camp for 2 or 3 days straight and repair all your stuff even with minimal repair skill.

CrazyBernie wrote:I don't really see how it's overpowered... you have to spend an awful lot of time camping to take advantage of it. Perhaps BW just needs to increase the rate of random encounters so that people can't camp for 30 hours at a time... or make certain areas like dungeons not produce alchemical ingredients.

Yep, that's currently my main problem with it - being able to "Forage" in dungeons (or houses/castles!). To me, you probably shouldn't be able to Forage in houses/castles/paved cities at all, and Foraging in dungeons should either be severely limited/restricted (to, as you say, perhaps food only) or not allowed at all.

The other issue I have with it is "Foraging" back-to-back(-to-back!) in the same spot - I don't think you should be able to Forage back-to-back in the same general area, though I realize from a coding standpoint that's probably a lot harder to implement...

If it was possible to fight "random encounters" in the sense that they exist in most CRPGs, and if those encounters had reasonable gold/item drops, then Foraging and Create Food (and to a lesser degree, that summon spell) would not be problems. The problem is that there is no reasonable way to grind for gold besides those two options. Having ZERO ways to grind is fine. It's fantastic, even. Having a few ways to grind puts a lot of pressure on those ways.

Simone wrote:- Not being able to dehydrate when walking in rain. Should rather go up instead of down.

This does not really coincide with reality, unless you are suggesting that your character would drink the rain water. You can die of dehydration while swimming in a lake.

The Amazon class to use Weapon Piercing, instead of Bludgeoning.

should be Bows, actually. The word "Amazon" (from the Greek α + μαισον "without breast") refers to ritual mastectomy to decrease interference with bow strings.

silverkitty wrote:

The Amazon class to use Weapon Piercing, instead of Bludgeoning.

should be Bows, actually. The word "Amazon" (from the Greek α + μαισον "without breast") refers to ritual mastectomy to decrease interference with bow strings.

They're just titles people... they're not meant to be super historically/culturally accurate. 0_o

And...? It would somehow hurt you if the Amazon title got you Bow Weapons instead of whatever Weapons as a skill? is it totally impossible that it be both?

Yes, I know the "popular perception" of Amazons is just "any chick with a sword," but, seriously - does it somehow HURT us to be more than just what the populace thinks? I mean, why have hunger/thirst, weapon wear and tear, etc if we only care to cater to the lowest common denominator? The "popular conception" of Amazons in America is warped from their original meaning almost entirely because the American culture would rather discuss the gory details of serial murder than mention the word "breast" - because Americans are more comfortable discussing the fraking Holocaust than they are discussing what occurs naturally after puberty. But we can be better than popular conception. We can be _both_ things because it's a niche game and because the titles only "mean" anything at game start, there's really NO reason at all to call a female proficient with aught but bows an Amazon, except the reason if lazily following American puritanical cultural norms.

Well, the game wouldn't be hurt by giving the Amazons bows instead of knives if that fits in more with popular perception.
I guess CrazyBernie would be happy enough to give Rangers Bludgeoning Weapens, Fighters Lore, Rogues Bowskills etc., but it would raise a few eyebrows, and understandably, err... I think Rogues actually do get Bowskills, now that I think of it.

Well, I think that's wrong. There should be a Rogue-type that gets Hide in Shadows. Some skills are handed out more than once at setup, and some skills not at all. I would tweak that.

KillingMoon wrote:...Well, I think that's wrong. There should be a Rogue-type that gets Hide in Shadows.

Don't forget Skullduggery!!

silverkitty wrote:And...? It would somehow hurt you if the Amazon title got you Bow Weapons instead of whatever Weapons as a skill? is it totally impossible that it be both?

Yes, I know the "popular perception" of Amazons is just "any chick with a sword," but, seriously - does it somehow HURT us to be more than just what the populace thinks? I mean, why have hunger/thirst, weapon wear and tear, etc if we only care to cater to the lowest common denominator? The "popular conception" of Amazons in America is warped from their original meaning almost entirely because the American culture would rather discuss the gory details of serial murder than mention the word "breast" - because Americans are more comfortable discussing the fraking Holocaust than they are discussing what occurs naturally after puberty. But we can be better than popular conception. We can be _both_ things because it's a niche game and because the titles only "mean" anything at game start, there's really NO reason at all to call a female proficient with aught but bows an Amazon, except the reason if lazily following American puritanical cultural norms.

Actually when I hear the word "Amazon" I picture a female warrior wielding a spear, not a sword, but that's just me.

sirdilznik wrote:

silverkitty wrote:And...? It would somehow hurt you if the Amazon title got you Bow Weapons instead of whatever Weapons as a skill? is it totally impossible that it be both?

Yes, I know the "popular perception" of Amazons is just "any chick with a sword," but, seriously - does it somehow HURT us to be more than just what the populace thinks? I mean, why have hunger/thirst, weapon wear and tear, etc if we only care to cater to the lowest common denominator? The "popular conception" of Amazons in America is warped from their original meaning almost entirely because the American culture would rather discuss the gory details of serial murder than mention the word "breast" - because Americans are more comfortable discussing the fraking Holocaust than they are discussing what occurs naturally after puberty. But we can be better than popular conception. We can be _both_ things because it's a niche game and because the titles only "mean" anything at game start, there's really NO reason at all to call a female proficient with aught but bows an Amazon, except the reason if lazily following American puritanical cultural norms.

Actually when I hear the word "Amazon" I picture a female warrior wielding a spear, not a sword, but that's just me.

Come on, we all know that REAL Amazons have bullet-deflecting bracelets and invisible planes. Geeze.

silverkitty wrote:And...? It would somehow hurt you if the Amazon title got you Bow Weapons instead of whatever Weapons as a skill? is it totally impossible that it be both?

Yes, I know the "popular perception" of Amazons is just "any chick with a sword," but, seriously - does it somehow HURT us to be more than just what the populace thinks? I mean, why have hunger/thirst, weapon wear and tear, etc if we only care to cater to the lowest common denominator? The "popular conception" of Amazons in America is warped from their original meaning almost entirely because the American culture would rather discuss the gory details of serial murder than mention the word "breast" - because Americans are more comfortable discussing the fraking Holocaust than they are discussing what occurs naturally after puberty. But we can be better than popular conception. We can be _both_ things because it's a niche game and because the titles only "mean" anything at game start, there's really NO reason at all to call a female proficient with aught but bows an Amazon, except the reason if lazily following American puritanical cultural norms.

From Wikipedia:

The Amazons were a legendary nation of female warriors in Greek mythology.

Amazon is an eponym, derived from the legend, for any woman warrior or athlete, including:

Amazon, nom de guerre of a Roman gladiatrix at Halicarnassus
Dahomey Amazons, an all-female regiment of the Kingdom of Dahomey
Amazon feminism, a branch of feminism that emphasizes female physical prowess

Here's More:

The Amazons (Greek: Ἀμαζόνες, Amazónes, singular Ἀμαζών, Amazōn) are a nation of all-female warriors in Classical and Greek mythology. Herodotus placed them in a region bordering Scythia in Sarmatia (modern territory of Ukraine). Other historiographers place them in Asia Minor or Libya.[1]

Notable queens of the Amazons are Penthesilea, who participated in the Trojan War, and her sister Hippolyta, whose magical girdle was the object of one of the labours of Hercules. Amazonian raiders were often depicted in battle with Greek warriors in amazonomachies in classical art.

The Amazons have become associated with various historical peoples throughout the Roman Empire period and Late Antiquity. In Roman historiography, there are various accounts of Amazon raids in Asia Minor. From the Early Modern period, their name has become a term for woman warriors in general.

Please excuse us Americans for associating the term "Amazon" with "female warrior" based on popular historical reference.

BW assigned weapons to titles, and titles somewhat based on Axiom/Class combinations. Since Piercing Weapons and Bows are Dexterity based, and "Fighters" are generally Strength based, he gave the "Amazon" title Bludgeoning weapons. I'm sure that "Amazon Warriors" were proficient with more than just the Bow and Spear.

For the record, I would prefer to talk about breasts until I'm blue in the face, as opposed to some tragic, past happenstance. But I guess that is a "popular conception" about us Americans.

KillingMoon wrote:Well, the game wouldn't be hurt by giving the Amazons bows instead of knives if that fits in more with popular perception.
I guess CrazyBernie would be happy enough to give Rangers Bludgeoning Weapens, Fighters Lore, Rogues Bowskills etc., but it would raise a few eyebrows, and understandably, err... I think Rogues actually do get Bowskills, now that I think of it.

Well, I think that's wrong. There should be a Rogue-type that gets Hide in Shadows. Some skills are handed out more than once at setup, and some skills not at all. I would tweak that.

I don't disagree that it might be prudent for rogues to start out with some rogue-based skills, but I didn't entirely agree with the current Title/Skill assignment system. BW and some other testers liked my proposed system, but it was too late to implement so late in development.

This was implemented to prevent you from "dying in your sleep." BW is looking at making the Hunger/Thirst penalties a bit tougher, so I'm not so sure you'd want to remove it then.

But I don't want to wake up when I'm at almost full HP. Cause I can easily heal myself to full health.

BW was looking into this shortly before release; it may be on the list of things to do in the next patch.

I hope it gets changed.

Also about the foraging thing. I didn't miss the point, I just happen to forget things a whole lot.

TheBuzzSaw wrote:

Simone wrote:- Not being able to dehydrate when walking in rain. Should rather go up instead of down.

This does not really coincide with reality, unless you are suggesting that your character would drink the rain water. You can die of dehydration while swimming in a lake.

I did mean to drink the rain water.

CrazyBernie wrote:

silverkitty wrote:

The Amazon class to use Weapon Piercing, instead of Bludgeoning.

should be Bows, actually. The word "Amazon" (from the Greek α + μαισον "without breast") refers to ritual mastectomy to decrease interference with bow strings.

They're just titles people... they're not meant to be super historically/culturally accurate. 0_o

They're just titles and we're just having opinions.