The Drunken Lizard Pub

Posted: **July 12th, 2010, 12:33 pm**

darkhartx1 wrote:[...]

Bruja is a Clan of vampires from the World of Darkness Pen and paper games as well as their videogames and upcoming MMO. Using that name would be... Dangerous.

You're thinking of the Brujah clan. I doubt it is copyrighted, since it has a somewhat general meaning or at least takes upon a wider inspiration behind the name. But more importantly, it is not to be confused with Bruja.

Posted: **July 12th, 2010, 1:04 pm**

OK, I'll at least tackle Mage today:

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Mage       Atheistic    Illusionist  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Illusionist
Mage       Druidic      Conjuress    Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Conjuror
Mage       Virtuous     Enchantress  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Mage
Mage       Nefarious    Sorceress    Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Warlock
Mage       Agnostic     Mystic       Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart

I may be the only one, but the repetitive "sameness" of the Mage class is a real turn-off actually! - What's the point of playing a Class if everything gives you the same option?!

Which brings me to a little side-story, that I promise will tie into my suggestions for Mage... anyway:

When I first played Virtuous Ranger, I was turned off by the fact that you get Arcane, Divination with it instead of Bows Skill like in Book I - "I don't want Magick, darn it!" I thought. "I want my Bless spell and my danged Bow!!" (Yeah, I was whining!

) Then I played Virtuous Ranger, and I ended up loving it!

Why? Because giving you Divination Magick upfront points you in an inescapable direction: that of playing a dual-class character! It turns out, playing Virtuous Ranger sets you up really nicely to play a kind of cool Ranger-Healer hybrid character. And, in the end, I liked my hybrid character a lot.

OK, so how does this tie in with my conception of the Mage class? Well, let me show you:

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Mage       Atheistic    Illusionist  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Illusionist
Mage       Druidic      Conjuress    Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Conjuror
Mage       Virtuous     Mystic       Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Fleshboil
                        Mystic
Mage       Nefarious    Sorceress(?) Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Warlock(?)
Mage       Agnostic     Enchantress  Arcane, Elemental     Scroll, Fire Dart
                        Mage

One simple change upfront - I've flipped the 'Titles" for Agnostic and Virtuous Mages to better reflect things: I don't think the actual "Mage" Title belongs with "Virtuous" Axiom (at least, IMO).

But to the big point - How can you give a Virtuous Axiom Mage Divination Magick, I.J.?!

Simple: my conception of "Virtuous Mage" is that you should play it as a Mage-Healer hybrid character! IOW, you're given Divination upfront with the implicit idea that you should add in Elemental Magick with Divination during character creation. (Note: You don't have to do it this way - it's just that it's a logical result to play it that way.) Anyway, viola! A ready-made Mage-Healer Hybrid character! Cool!!

Meanwhile, it's nonsensical not to give Nefarious axiom a Weapons skill - Nefarious gives no bonus to spell-casting, so without a 'set' Weapons Skill at start, there's no rationale for going with "Nefarious Mage". But, give the "Nefarious" Title a Weapons skill, and suddenly "Nefarious Mage" Title points in the direction of either a Mage-Rogue or Mage-Fighter hybrid character...

Anyway, I was a little dissatisfied with the set-up for Mage, and I definitely think a few of these Mage Titles could use some 'tweaking'...

Posted: **July 12th, 2010, 2:24 pm**

darkhartx1 wrote:
Dragonlady wrote:
a woman who practices the black arts *ancient laws against witches*
Synonyms bruja, enchantress, hag, hex, lamia, sorceress, witchwoman; compare MAGICIAN 1
2
Synonyms HAG 2, ||bag, ||bat, beldam, biddy, crone, drab, trot
Instead of witch for Healer list, how about one of the above? I looked up the word in my Thesaurus. Bruja sounds good. The synonym list made me smile. I learned something new!
Bruja is a Clan of vampires from the World of Darkness Pen and paper games as well as their videogames and upcoming MMO. Using that name would be... Dangerous.

Before the World of Darkness writers borrowed the term, bruja is, was, and always will be a female shaman in Mexican culture (the male equivalent is brujo). If you want to go further afield, you could use inyanga, which is the Zulu word for a witchdoctor or "traditional healer."

Posted: **July 12th, 2010, 2:38 pm**

IJBall wrote: The one caveat is that tying "con artist" or "swindler" together with "Virtuous" axiom seems a little... "off" to me.

Yeah, I thought so too, but then it occurred to me that it might be more virtuous to separate people from their jewels through trickery than by, say, dismemberment. Virtue is a relative thing in a rogue's world.

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 9:35 am**

And now onto Healer:

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Healer     Atheistic    Pythoness    Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Sawbones
Healer     Druidic      Wiccan       Medicine              Dagger
                        True Druid
Healer     Virtuous     Cleric       Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Divine Heal
                        Cleric
Healer     Nefarious    Witch        Weapons, Piercing     Dagger
                        Necromancer
Healer     Agnostic     Sibyl        Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Fleshboil
                        Theurgist

I actually don't have too many issues with the Healer Titles, as BW's currently constructed them. Basically only two:

I have a problem with not giving a Title an offensive weapon right off the bat, so I find giving Virtuous Healer a Divine Heal scroll problematic. (A problem which also affects Druidic Rogue as it's currently constructed - but as I want to revise the whole Rogue class anyway, I didn't mention this issue when reviewing Rogue...)

Anyway, I think it's clear why BW did this - "Clerics" (Virtuous Healers), afterall, are supposed to be "good guys", so giving them Divine Heal just seems right on some level. And it's not like you have to "run a gauntlet" to get to town to buy weapons either.

But, still, I don't like the idea of giving two titles out of 20 no guaranteed offensive weapon at game's start - Eschalon is not a party-based game afterall, so starting a player out with just Divine Heal doesn't seem right to me. I'd personally rather see Clerics get Fleshboil at game's start as well.
The other problem one is Druidic Healer - having Medicine as the starting 'set' Skill is nigh on useless. Medicine isn't quite as useless as Meditation, but it's close - I'd rather see Druidic Healers get Divination (with the Fleshboil spell) or possibly Unarmed Combat, or perhaps even Foraging (that'd be a far better starting ability than Medicine, in my estimation! ), or why not Dodge(?!), instead. I'd also rather that Druidic Healers started out with a Cudgel over a Dagger, as well.

Finally, the issue of the Title "Wiccan" has already been discussed in this thread - good alternatives like "Priestess", "Shaman", "Witch Doctor" or "Bruja" have all be proffered, and I'd prefer any of these to "Wiccan".

But, overall, I actually think the Healer Titles are mostly set up pretty well - only a few revisions might be needed here...

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 9:41 am**

And, finally, Ranger!:

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Ranger     Atheistic    Naturalist   Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Naturalist
Ranger     Druidic      Dryad        Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Guardian
Ranger     Virtuous     Warden       Arcane, Divination    Scroll, Fleshboil
                        Shepherd 
Ranger     Nefarious    Siren        Weapons, Cleaving     Axe
                        Blighter
Ranger     Agnostic     Huntress     Weapons, Bows         Bow & (40) Arrows
                        Vanquisher

Guess what? - I have no complaints here!

Yeah, sure - you could argue that one of the Ranger Titles should maybe get Foraging, or possibly Move Silently or Hide in Shadows (or possibly even Repair!).

But, the fact is, I like all of the given Skills and starting Items for all 5 Ranger Titles, as currently set up. So, honestly, I'd rather just leave 'em be for Book III.

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 10:00 am**

IJBall wrote:And now onto Healer:

[*]I have a problem with not giving a Title an offensive weapon right off the bat, so I find giving Virtuous Healer a Divine Heal scroll problematic. (A problem which also affects Druidic Rogue as it's currently constructed - but as I want to revise the whole Rogue class anyway, I didn't mention this issue when reviewing Rogue...)

Anyway, I think it's clear why BW did this - "Clerics" (Virtuous Healers), afterall, are supposed to be "good guys", so giving them Divine Heal just seems right on some level. And it's not like you have to "run a gauntlet" to get to town to buy weapons either.

But, still, I don't like the idea of giving two titles out of 20 no guaranteed offensive weapon at game's start - Eschalon is not a party-based game afterall, so starting a player out with just Divine Heal doesn't seem right to me. I'd personally rather see Clerics get Fleshboil at game's start as well.

Seems to me that these would be the two classes you'd most likely want to play as a Pacifist (for that game challenge). As such, the lack of offense seems perfectly logical to me.

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 10:10 am**

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:Seems to me that these would be the two classes you'd most likely want to play as a Pacifist (for that game challenge). As such, the lack of offense seems perfectly logical to me.

That's one reason why I switched my revised "magical" Rogue Title to the Sparkling Wonder spell - out of all the spells, Sparkling Wonder really seems geared towards the 'Pacifist' challenge-type game (as well as to Rogues who want to steal from NPCs without committing a "crime"!

).

But Divine Heal doesn't help as much towards that, IMO (who wants a spell that presumes you're going to take needless damage?!

). Also, I'm not sure any Title should sort of force you to play a certain kind of way, and I feel like getting Divine Heal as your starting Item is kind of limiting.

But I realize this is a personal preference/'judgment call' kind of thing. Still, if it were up to me, I wouldn't start anyone out with just a Divine Heal spell...

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 10:58 am**

Of course, being Virtuous, the character actually starts out with Divine Heal and Bless, so even without a weapon skill, you can improve your offensive capabilities immediately if necessary.

I'm playing a Virtuous Healer in a game right now, in fact. As noted, it's easy enough to bypass the first rat and get to town without trouble, where I've picked up my offensive spell (I don't do pacifist.

).

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 11:54 am**

BTW, if we were to decide to give one of the Ranger Titles the skill Foraging (or, say, Move Silently) as their starting Skill, I vote for the most obvious candidate being:

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Ranger     Druidic      Dryad        Foraging         Bow&Arrows(?)
                        Guardian

Still, as I said above - I'm not sure this is necessary, and I already feel like the Ranger class is good as it is...

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 8:38 pm**

Kreador Freeaxe wrote:As noted, it's easy enough to bypass the first rat and get to town without trouble, where I've picked up my offensive spell (I don't do pacifist. ).

My healer made it all the way to Port Kuudad before finally being able to get a flesh boil scroll.

I had to hack my way through using a bronze hand ax.

Posted: **July 13th, 2010, 9:46 pm**

Randomizer wrote:My healer made it all the way to Port Kuudad before finally being able to get a flesh boil scroll.
I had to hack my way through using a bronze hand ax.

See - I knew I wasn't wrong about this!!

(Though I am surprised - I just assumed that the Magic/potions merchant in Eastwillow always had Fleshboil spells for sale.

If she doesn't, then my point about non-offensive (or non-Sparkling Wonder) spells is even more valid...)

The Drunken Lizard Pub

List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items

Re: List of Character "Titles", and Starting Skills & Items