The Drunken Lizard Pub

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Yes, Book I is solo. Book II/III is party-based. No, you don't gain a party during the game. It is total solo.

Yes, you start with a complete blank slate character and can develop him any way you want...but please refrain from comparing Eschalon to Dungeon Siege.

Does this mean you dont have any initial stat points to distribute based on what type of character you want to play? Im guess you do gets some base points to use in the old school style

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Yes, Book I is solo. Book II/III is party-based. No, you don't gain a party during the game. It is total solo.

Yes, you start with a complete blank slate character and can develop him any way you want...but please refrain from comparing Eschalon to Dungeon Siege.

My apologies for the comparison... I can see how it could sting. Besides, if there's no party, then it isn't DS.

The only concern I would have with an "specialize as you go" methodology is the danger of irreversible advancement. To use DS as an example of what NOT to do, the game basically forced you to specialize your characters in one field, or absolutely focus on being "good at everything" from the very start. Otherwise, changing or adjusting skill specialties became not just inconvenient, but outright impossible in the mid-game stages.

So with your magick system (the spelling's fine, I've seen that particular variant used elsewhere), are spells treated as skills, or is it a separate system on top of the skill system?

Adamantyr

adamantyr wrote:The only concern I would have with an "specialize as you go" methodology is the danger of irreversible advancement. To use DS as an example of what NOT to do, the game basically forced you to specialize your characters in one field, or absolutely focus on being "good at everything" from the very start. Otherwise, changing or adjusting skill specialties became not just inconvenient, but outright impossible in the mid-game stages.

Well, I think a good RPG should be just as much of a strategy game as it is anything else. In that regard you should build a character that best supports your play style, and when problems are encountered, it is your responsibility as a player to figure out a solution...

For example: How do you open a locked chest when you didn't develop a Rogue with lockpicking skills? Well, your Fighter character could break it open using a hammer and 2 minutes of spare time. Your Mage could cast Lock Melt and melt the lock right off.

What if you make a great Rogue but then discover he is not so good against powerful adversaries? Use his skills: Hide in Shadow to avoid being tracked. Use the environment by luring it into a doorway and dropping a portcullis on it, or blow it up next to a powder keg. Keep potions on hand that will beef up the skills and stats that you lack.

adamantyr wrote:So with your magick system (the spelling's fine, I've seen that particular variant used elsewhere), are spells treated as skills, or is it a separate system on top of the skill system?

A few spells, such as Lock Melt mentioned above, have the same effect as certain skills such as Lock Picking. But most spells have unique effects, such as Invisibility or Enkindled Weapon, which can't be represented with a Skill.

Saxon1974 wrote:Does this mean you dont have any initial stat points to distribute based on what type of character you want to play? Im guess you do gets some base points to use in the old school style

Your "blank character" starts with 20 Skill points to distribute, 15 Attribute points, Attribute bonuses based on your character's origins, and a free primary skill based on your chosen Class.

Stuff is looking good....lock melt what a cool name for a spell it just sorta hits the r ight spot ya know?

Neat to see stuff for part two already being thought out.

What happens if you equip an unidentified weapon or object? and are their cursed items as well? I can remember playing Wizardry and equiping an unidentified weapon, then having it "stuck" in my possesion before I paid someone 10 times what an ID check would have cost to get the weapon off of me. I always though that was very clever....

Saxon1974 wrote:I think words that describe a particular people are some of the most obvious so I think taking them out is a good idea. I also think Demon Oil sounds cool so good job

All the terms I mentioned were the names of particular groups of people (and one nation).

Althought you're right, Demon Oil does sound cool.

MarionDeputy: Yes, a cursed weapon cannot be removed once equipped without a de-hexing. You can't always tell when a weapon is cursed before you equip it (Wisdom check), but luckily cursed items are fairly rare in Book I.

As for completely unknown items: right now, you cannot use or equip them at all. This may change when the beta testers have their turn with the game if I hear a lot of complaints. Realistically, a dagger is a dagger, even if it is exotic and can't be identified, right? You should still be able to put it in your hand and stab with it.

But, for the sake of uniformity with all items, it was easier just to say the item must be properly identified before using. If not, we'd have to penalize players for possibly wearing unknown armor incorrectly. Unknown scrolls may be read incorrectly. Unknown magical artifacts may be used incorrectly. This creates an additional level of complexity for item usage that we wanted to avoid in Book I. Book II will have a completely revamped Items Module to address these issues.

Why not just have the items have basic characteristics if you do not know what they are...that way unless you do they are just a dagger instead of a dagger of mega slaying evil undead chipmunks?

Yes, that is the sorta the way it will work in Book II. Trust me, the design docs for the Eschalon series is very ambitious. After starting Book I it was painfully obvious that we were going to have to dilute several aspects of the game or we'd be working 4 years on it. Items is one such aspect- Book I has about 500 items, and Book II will have about 3 times that amount as per our original specs.

Hehehe gonna need more help for book 2 then;)

Well.
Anyway I like the idea that magic items are scarce and we'll use almost entirely "normal" items. What makes a magic item special is its rarity.
Same thing for item identification.
If I find a rare magic item after a long journey I think it's a good choice to study and identify it before you can use it.
Com'on ,it's a rare magic item! Something difficult to see around. In real life, I think I'd like to know what it does and how it works before I try to use it.
So I agree with Basilisk.

BasiliskWrangler wrote:Book I has about 500 items, and Book II will have about 3 times that amount as per our original specs.

Might I suggest excersising some restraint there?
One of the things that really made, for me, BG2 worse than BG1 was the fact that BG2 was awash in magical items, it was ridiculous.
While finding some neat items is nice, finding tons of neat items pretty much ruins that feeling of "hey, I found a neat item!".

There are certainly a number of improvements to be made in Book 2, but adding in more items isn't necessarily a huge priority from my perspective as a player. Gameplay, story, adventure, music, sounds, graphics.. those are things that bring me more into the game than doodads.

Now if you mean items in a broader sense, as items being assets like more critters, people, NPCs, bits and pieces that comprise structures and whatnot, then by all means, add away!

Well, I'll explain things more when the time is near, but our plan is not to flood the game with a ton of magical items. Rather, we have planned a system where there are a multitude of different metals in the world: copper, bronze, iron, steel, mithril, adamantine, divine ore, etc. Any weapon and armor can be made of this metal (or alloys thereof) resulting in numerous variations of common items such as short swords and chainmail jerkins. Each metal has it's own hardness, weight, and rareness, and that is reflected in the cost and frequency of finding items made of it. Wooden items follow the same idea using numerous variations of wood.

Basically, with the system we plan on implementing, there are a large assortment of base items, a large assortment of woods, metals and alloys, and an assortment of imbuements. When we need a weapon, we just ask the system to give us a random weapon. It'll fabricate one based on the rarity levels we request. The combination of all these things means we will have hundreds and hundreds of unique items available, and relatively low percentage will be enchanted with magic.

Thats sounds amazing...did any of that at all make it into game one? Unless you guys have an item g enerator that could take a long time to add all those types into the game...

Yes, a very "watered-down" version made it into Book I, but as I said, it is just a fraction of what we had planned. We just had to make some cuts to get the first game out the door in reasonable time.