Suggestion for B3: Pickpocketing [B2 Spoilers]

[CrazyBernie]

I think that depends on the type of character you're roleplaying... in which case it is what it is. I don't think the quest should be changed just to satisfy every "roleplaying" option. If your character's not intelligent enough to theorize that there's more than one way into H-lorne, then so be it.

[Rebelicious]

I think that depends on the type of character you're roleplaying... in which case it is what it is. I don't think the quest should be changed just to satisfy every "roleplaying" option. If your character's not intelligent enough to theorize that there's more than one way into H-lorne, then so be it.

How does intelligence even factor into it? You're on a quest that you have accepted, to get into the Hammerlorne mines. You are told that Sparrow is an ally and that she has the key to the mines.

How do you rationalize thinking "Hey, let's ignore Sparrow and the fact that she is an ally with the key and go straight to Hammerlorne mines instead? Who cares about the quest anyway, derp?" as any character concept besides a complete moron?

Looking for an alternative way into the mines, or a second key, only makes sense if you know Sparrow have gone mad or cannot acquire her key. There is no way to know this without first having met (and subsequently been attacked by) Sparrow.

[xolotl]

Looking for an alternative way into the mines, or a second key, only makes sense if you know Sparrow have gone mad or cannot acquire her key. There is no way to know this without first having met (and subsequently been attacked by) Sparrow.

Er, I don't think anyone's suggested not going to meet (and subsequently get attacked by) Sparrow - I think it was more just that once you DO get attacked, your character can decide what to do about it (ie: fight back, or try to find another way to get at the objective).

I do agree that the True Healer challenge is odd and nonintuitive (in addition to being far too easy once you know about the Sparrow thing), but as others have said, a challenge which you'd get basically "by default" by just playing through the game wouldn't be much of a challenge, now, would it?

[Rebelicious]

[...]

I do agree that the True Healer challenge is odd and nonintuitive (in addition to being far too easy once you know about the Sparrow thing), but as others have said, a challenge which you'd get basically "by default" by just playing through the game wouldn't be much of a challenge, now, would it?

And as I said;

You shouldn't. Challenges -should- be additional tasks to spice up gameplay. The issue, as I see it, is that by following the questline, you lose the challenge by default. Follow the questline and you -will- lose the challenge.

You shouldn't win -or- lose any challenges at all due to the main questline. Sparrow should still be there, Sparrow should still have the key and Sparrow should be the easiest way to procure a key, and the quest should still reflect this.

But the quest shouldn't be "Go meet Sparrow". It should be "Procure a key [Sparrow has one]".

[xolotl]

You shouldn't win -or- lose any challenges at all due to the main questline.

Well, I guess we'll just disagree about that. :) I personally have no problems with challenges which require you to deviate from the main questline.

But the quest shouldn't be "Go meet Sparrow". It should be "Procure a key [Sparrow has one]".

I'd disagree here too. If I were Korren, I'd say "Go talk to Sparrow" because as far as I knew, that would be by far the easiest (and perhaps to me, only known) way of achieving the end. And roleplaying as the character, I would take that to mean "Go talk to Sparrow," not "Find a key, possibly Sparrow's." Wording it so that the existance of multiple keys is implied would give your character an omniscience which I don't think is warranted.

[KillingMoon]

Wording it so that the existance of multiple keys is implied would give your character an omniscience which I don't think is warranted.

Since the dwarves having a key is probably not an omnisecret either, letting your character find out through dialogue would be logical enough, though.
In many places in the game our character asks questions like 'Tell me about Ironpool Dam', 'Tell me about Wolfenwood Forest', etc., so why not ask about entry to Hammerlorne mines?
It doesn't need to be Korren that gives this information, it can also be some lonely dwarf that has fallen out with the dwarven community that our character is meeting on his way over. That's one of the things that this game is missing anyway: independant characters that provide useful hints.

[silverkitty]

From Korren's point of view, Sparrow is perfectly fine - so of course he just says "go talk to her for a key."

When you meet her and she goes nuts on you - if you're thinking "I don't want to violate true healer," you perfectly well have the option of running away from that combat without killing her. The challenge isn't violated by the quest, it's violated by the choice you make when the quest doesn't go exactly as Korren planned.

To me, the only thing really missing here is if she (a) attacks you, and (b) you run away without killing her, and (c) you update Korren on the situation, THEN he might suggest, "well, you could always try the Dwarven King, he probably has a key to his own mine, but be warned, you'll likely need to steal it, because I don't think he'll ever be persuaded to our cause." But that seems like a minor addition since it's unlikely a player is going to go running back to Korren at that point - they'll probably intrepidly look for an alternate solution on their own.