GOLD: Neverwinter Nights 2

[Saxon1974]

Has anyone picked up NWN2 yet? I haven't...waiting for a couple good reviews first.

Yes I have been playing it last couple of days.

Havent went real far yet, so this is just an early quick impression, might change as I play more.

Positives.

--Pretty good writing and dialog, not terrible voice acting.
--Character creation pretty involved
--Graphics are decent but not great
--complete control of your other party members
--environments are fairly interesting
--cool spell effects

Negavites so far.....

--Pretty linear....you have to play through one area to get to the next.
-- The dungeons seem to be all about combat with enemies thrown in the rooms to sludge through.
--Camera angles are akward and I keep having to rotate to see whats going on.
--A bit too much combat for my taste.

Its pretty much fight a bunch, then talk a bunch, then fight some more....repeat.

I havent made it to Neverwinter yet so I will see if much changes when I get there.

[Fleisch]

I haven't gotten very far either, and I agree with Saxon1974 on all points. I'm enjoying it, but with all the combat, I find the camera controls very awkward, particularly when trying to find the next foe in a mass of them.

One thing I would add is that the story, though linear, is very good at giving you a sense that you really need to move on with the main storyline. Much better than the first NWN in that respect.

Incidentally, my video card (ATI X700) doesn't meet recommended specs, and I haven't run into any real problems running at 1280x1024, with a few other options turned down that I don't care about. (In this audience, are there people that care about lighting flares or shadow map size? I don't even understand most of the options. Weirdly, most of the characters look as though they are spectral fiends or have light bulbs inside them, since their mouths are lit up, and light leaks out around their eyeballs as well.)

Load times on my computer (P4 3.40; 2GB of RAM) are long, to the point that I sometimes think the game has frozen. No crashes, though.

[Gallifrey]

I usually turn off a lot of "flash" features in games anyways. Shadows for instance, add very little in exchange for a huge system hit (unless it's something like the Thief games of course), shiny water and stuff like that.
Apparently you can turn of the HDR (that's the glowy lighting effect) in the .ini file.

I'm continually hearing that the graphics are nice but not great, but it's the graphics that are the most resource demanding element of the game, so that's a bit off-putting.

For NWN2 though, my main concern is how it's going to perform for Persistant World building. The single player campaign is nice to have and all, but I don't really need the game for that. I've got many other games I can play if I'm looking for single-player (and Eschalon when it comes out of course!). For me, NWN is all about role-playing in a persistant game world, so that's where the performance and capability of the game lies in terms of importance for me. And from what I've read, it's capability to support that sort of thing is iffy at best.

[D-elf]

Hi guys,

I'm a bit low on cash right now, so i have to make choices on which game i want to buy.. Gothic 3 or NWN 2??

Which is the better, more intelligent, coherent RPG??
I've heard that NWN 2 is lineair as hell..., too easy and has bad AI.

I've played oblivion and it was a disappointment for me, €50 wasted.
So i'm a bit sceptical about Gothic 3 because its kinda the same game-style...
Or is Gothic 3 a mature game, a challenge?

Who has played both games, and what are your opinions??

And for the love of god, hurry up with Book 1 !


greetz

[syrio]

About NWN it's pretty much true what Saxon said about it earlier. While I think it is better of the two games, it isn't really an outstanding game. It's like the Baldur's Gate games in 3D. While NWN1 was a setback gameplay and story-wise compared to the Infinity engine games, NWN2 seems to bring back the quality to that level, but not any higher..
But for the money you can also play online with friends, which can be fun. Lots of quality story mods and persistant world servers coming later.

About Gothic 3: I also hated Oblivion, it was a huge disappointment, but I liked the previous 2 Gothics, and I like this one as well, but it's true that it's not really a finished product, it's full of bugs and combat is imbalanced etc. But the world is nicely portrayed, it's very believeable, oppressed human rebels fighting against (some rather civilized and "intelligent", militaristic) orcs, who are looking for sacred artifacts for Xardas (G2 villain), and they really start to have enough of this occupation thing, problems with rebels and slaves everywhere etc. So the world is not just a huge melting pot of 10 totally different races living in total harmony and union like in Oblivion. But I wouldn't call Gothic an RPG, it's more like an action adventure(TONS of quests and dialogue, lots of random monsters in the wilderness) with some simple skill advancement system.


In my opinion, if you really MUST buy one of them, I rather recommend to buy NWN2.

[screeg]

About NWN it's pretty much true what Saxon said about it earlier. While I think it is better of the two games, it isn't really an outstanding game. It's like the Baldur's Gate games in 3D. While NWN1 was a setback gameplay and story-wise compared to the Infinity engine games, NWN2 seems to bring back the quality to that level, but not any higher..

Blasphemy! To be fair, I found myself thinking exactly the same thing about NWN2 being like BG. But after about 3 seconds of consideration I realized that although it's considerably more like BG than anything else seen on PC since then, it doesn't really hold a candle to that classic. Not to be a snob, it's an enjoyable game and I agree with points made above.

But this game is Linear with a captial Lin.

In Neverwinter, there is no one to talk to who is not plot related or a merchant. And the merchants have nothing to say. Everyone (I mean EVERYONE) else is called "Neverwinter Citizen".

You can't enter the houses. I mean you cannot enter a single building that is not related to a quest. They don't have entrances.

I've been through two entire districts and there is not one sidequest, except those related to your party members. Everything is about the main plot.

There are no areas you can accidentally discover. Out in the wilderness I looked at the automap (which by the way reveals all the terrain) and determined to leave the road at right angles and see what might be out there. I met a dire wolf and wolf pack hovering around a corpse and a cave entrance! This is what a fun RPG is about, thought me. I killed the wolves, the corpse was nameless and had a few trinkets on it. The cave was actually just a graphic, there was no entrance.

Now that I've got that off my chest, the single-player game is fun and I recommend it, especially in the CRPG wasteland of the 20th century.

A pro-tip for camera wrangling: go into the nwnplayer.ini and change CameraAlwaysFollows (it's something like that) to = 1.
****
PS. Something else of interest: click http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/nwn2review.html to read the 1-Up review of NWN2 that was pulled from the site for being too unbalanced. He gave the game a 5/10.

[Saxon1974]

About NWN it's pretty much true what Saxon said about it earlier. While I think it is better of the two games, it isn't really an outstanding game. It's like the Baldur's Gate games in 3D. While NWN1 was a setback gameplay and story-wise compared to the Infinity engine games, NWN2 seems to bring back the quality to that level, but not any higher..

Blasphemy! To be fair, I found myself thinking exactly the same thing about NWN2 being like BG. But after about 3 seconds of consideration I realized that although it's considerably more like BG than anything else seen on PC since then, it doesn't really hold a candle to that classic. Not to be a snob, it's an enjoyable game and I agree with points made above.

But this game is Linear with a captial Lin.

In Neverwinter, there is no one to talk to who is not plot related or a merchant. And the merchants have nothing to say. Everyone (I mean EVERYONE) else is called "Neverwinter Citizen".

You can't enter the houses. I mean you cannot enter a single building that is not related to a quest. They don't have entrances.

I've been through two entire districts and there is not one sidequest, except those related to your party members. Everything is about the main plot.

There are no areas you can accidentally discover. Out in the wilderness I looked at the automap (which by the way reveals all the terrain) and determined to leave the road at right angles and see what might be out there. I met a dire wolf and wolf pack hovering around a corpse and a cave entrance! This is what a fun RPG is about, thought me. I killed the wolves, the corpse was nameless and had a few trinkets on it. The cave was actually just a graphic, there was no entrance.

Now that I've got that off my chest, the single-player game is fun and I recommend it, especially in the CRPG wasteland of the 20th century.

A pro-tip for camera wrangling: go into the nwnplayer.ini and change CameraAlwaysFollows (it's something like that) to = 1.
****
PS. Something else of interest: click http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/nwn2review.html to read the 1-Up review of NWN2 that was pulled from the site for being too unbalanced. He gave the game a 5/10.

I agree with you screeg, I think the thing that is missing most in this game is the sense of exploration. There is no reason at all to walk around and explore the world since everything is generic except for those related to the main plot. Im enjoying the game, but this part of it is really bugging me.

This game is way too easy too! I have it on the hardest setting and I am winning all battles pretty easily.

This is one of those games that I think is hard to review as an RPG, it doesn't have much of a sense of exploration or open ended-ness to it....so if I had to review it as an RPG I wouldnt rate it that high, its a well made game with a good story but is lacking as a true RPG in my opinion.

I havent really encountered any bugs since I have been playing it.

[BasiliskWrangler]

So what is the long-term verdict on NWN2? I never did pick it up after reading mediocre reviews. Now after several patches and community tweaks, I was wondering if the game has improved. I've noticed it for sale at a used bookstore and I am tempted to give it a spin.

[Gallifrey]

All I know about NWN2 is that I can't run it on my machine

[Fleisch]

It's so forgettable that until I was reminded by seeing my comments above, I didn't even remember I had it. On the other hand, it's probably worth picking up for 15 bucks -- just for a quick insight into the sorry state of modern so-called RPGs, but not so that it keeps you from working on a game that we'll actually enjoy.

[Gallifrey]

Well, NWN wasn't any good for it's campaigns either, it was best suited for playing in persistant worlds or some of the modules that were made.
I sunk a lot of time into NWN but never completed any of the original campaigns.

[Saxon1974]

I would pass on it unless you have absolutely nothing else to play.

I think most of the patching was game tweaks and bug fixes, my biggest problems were that is was so linear and there was no reason to explore in an open ended fashion. (If I cant do that, it kills an RPG for me)

Plus, how are you going to finish Eschalon if your playing NWN2?

[screeg]

In my original post on the game, I said:

the single-player game is fun and I recommend it, especially in the CRPG wasteland of the 20th century.

I now retract that in its entirety. By the end of Chapter one your character is saddled with this talky soccer mom who has decided to follow you everywhere.
It appears that most, if not all, NPCs you meet are bound to join the main character. They can't be killed but they can be left to crowd the inn in Neverwinter, the sole purpose of which is to house your dozen or so followers.

But this lady not only can't be avoided, and can't be killed, you have to take her with you. She says things like, "Everyone grab a buddy and lets head out."

While I'm on a rant, I have to mention the TRIAL too.
****SPOILER AHEAD****

I'll keep it short: Your character is accused of massacring some civilians. You have the opportunity to collect evidence for your case, to interview witnesses, and to either represent yourself or have one of your friends do it. The trial is long and brilliantly done, great acting, dozens of various choices and possible branches to it. It was one of the greatest role-playing achievements I had ever seen. However, despite gathering four or five different pieces of evidence in my favor, I lost. Also, my star witness inexplicably didn't show up. I was so convinced I should have won, I looked it up on the forums.

You can't win. If you confess the moment you're arrested the outcome would have been the same. The whole thing was like a multiple choice cut scene without any purpose whatsoever.

And that pretty much sums up the whole game.

The good news is it sounds like Dragon Age is going to be as much like NWN2 as they can make it without paying for the D&D license.

P.S. it looks like the modding community is a fraction of a fraction of what it was for the first game.

[BasiliskWrangler]

Well...that settles that then. Thanks for the updates everyone!

[Saxon1974]

What I am curious about is if the expansion coming out soon will be less linear then the original campaign? The previews say some focus is on exploration, but I cant really rely on previews anymore since they are always hype machines....

Anyone know? If it does allow some open ended game play I might give it a go.....