Savefile Character / Map Editor v1.0.1 (April 15, 2014)

Ask questions, share hints or chat in general about Eschalon: Book I.
Post Reply
User avatar
Evnissyen
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1078
Joined: July 7th, 2008, 11:28 am
Location: Elizabeth Warren Land
Contact:

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Evnissyen »

CrazyBernie wrote:As a writer (albiet an amateurish-wannabe-but-hopefully-up-and-coming writer), I've (more than once) scrapped an entire work and re-wrote it from scratch. By doing so, even if I ended up writing a lot of the same stuff, I was able to incorporate new ideas that presented themselves, making what I re-wrote a better piece. I'm a big fan of that "fresh outlook," even if it is a more time consuming way of doing things.
Any method that ends up improving the product as well as your writing skills is a good thing. There're too many writers, these days (maybe there always were, I don't know), who settle for mediocre writing, they don't push themselves. (I had a big argument over at Bizarro Central over this, among other things, a while back . . . a couple of people took it very personally, thus I had to leave. They just weren't used to people challenging them, and the only feedback they ever get is "hey, that's really cool, I wanna read more", they're never challenged and they never challenge themselves. I found out pretty quickly that Bizarro is a dead end, it's a pool of young writers who think all they need to do is write stuff that's weird, and that's enough. Being weird just isn't enough. You should also know how to write well. And it takes a lot of time to write well, it's very difficult to learn to write fiction well. These people have been led or are being led into complacency, and this is very dangerous for young writers, especially those with ideas and potential. I wanted to get through to them... .)

(Not that I'm any great writer, myself, but I'm still pushing myself, still trying to improve, trying to learn how to improve.)

It's always best to keep pushing yourself, no matter how good a writer you think you've become. Whenever you start to feel safe: deliberately try to break yourself, to scare yourself, always challenge yourself. And if you find that there're other people whose judgment you're always keeping in mind and whom you're always trying to please: deliberately write something that will really piss them off. Maybe then you'll feel more free to write what you truly feel.

I've still yet to learn that last part, myself . . . really, it's not easy. One's ego is very much defined by how other people see you; therefore so is one's art, since the inception/creation of art is through the expression of the self.

But... writing isn't the subject of the thread. So... back to the topic, about which I personally have nothing to say, oh well. At least I was good for a short tangent?... maybe?
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
silverkitty
Senior Council Member
Posts: 243
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 8:41 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by silverkitty »

Well, if xolotl were to start over with a Book II editor, I could get behind that, Bernie. What I was advocating against was copying all the Book I editor code to a Book II folder, then tweaking it for Book II (except, perhaps, as a first pass, to see just what needs to be generalized into the super classes)
User avatar
Evnissyen
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1078
Joined: July 7th, 2008, 11:28 am
Location: Elizabeth Warren Land
Contact:

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Evnissyen »

silverkitty wrote:What I was advocating against was copying all the Book I editor code to a Book II folder, then tweaking it for Book II
I think that's what Jeff Vogel, of Spiderweb Software, does with his games. I think he essentially takes the same code and just modifies it. He definitely seems to recycle as much as he can, both code and graphics, to speed things up . . . but I'm no expert on his process, you'd have to check out his blog to find out more . . . or interview him, or something, I suppose.

Speed too often comes at the sacrifice of quality.

I can definitely see that sticking to the same code can hamper imagination, inventiveness, progress, and quality. At least with game development, anyhow. With character & map editors: different issues, I suppose. But with game development, I really do actually see some parallel with fiction writing, because when I'm writing a long piece, and I get stuck: I find that keeping the entire text and trying to modify it keeps me trapped in the same muck, whereas if I just simply start over again then my mind is freed up, my characters are freed up, I'm free to discover and explore new pathways.
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
silverkitty
Senior Council Member
Posts: 243
Joined: January 22nd, 2008, 8:41 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by silverkitty »

Awww, to be fair, he made a major fork of his code base for Geneforge when he changed it from turn based always to semi-continuous :)

Anyway, while what you say in principle is true, what we're talking about here is not a whole game, it's specifically xolotl's editor.

Consider, for example, the map class:
what it does is knows hows to read/write a book I file with a header consisting of a dozen or so "special" fields, and then knows how to read 20,000 squares into an array, and then knows how to relate the squares in the weird isometric geometry used by BW (most people would make a square array isometric by rotating the axes 45 degrees, BW chose to make a square array isometric while still preserving some concept of "0,0 is upper left" by doing some magic with columns being alternately odd or even subsets of the Y axis), finally it knows how to handle an auxiliary file of "entities."

Anyway - I've poked at the files - what has changed in Book II maps is: the exact list of headers at the front is slightly different, and in book II there's occasionally there's stuff after the squares specifying "big graphics inserts" (for the ship, dragon skeleton, hammerlorne main gate, etc). All the code for relating the squares in an isometric fashion? Still valid. All the code for reading the 20,000 squares into an array? Still valid (the squares are even encoded in 7 bytes still, so I'd lay good odds the 7 bytes still mean the same thing). I haven't poked at the entity files much, but even the entity file format is totally different (doubtful), because the "map" class deals with that through a helper class, it would just call a different helper class for Book I files v. Book II files.

So, basically, if he were to copy the code for map.py from the book I folder to the book II folder, it would grow by a few lines, rearrange about 50 lines, and that's it. In programming, though, there's a way to take the 350 untouched lines and stick them elsewhere and share it between both editors.
User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 777
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by xolotl »

Heh, well - putting the debate to rest, I'll say that in the end I'm just keeping everything in the same editor and subclassing as-needed. It looks like it'll work fine and is probably the best way to go. Time will tell, of course. :)

I've got the Book II character data loading properly; the CLI tools are just about up to snuff. Then to work on the GUI! (Again, this is just the character editor for now, I'll see what I can do on the map editor side, given that the map data is protected in Book 2 (and I certainly wouldn't release anything which breaks that protection).)
User avatar
AK_Marty
Officer [Bronze Rank]
Officer [Bronze Rank]
Posts: 262
Joined: June 28th, 2008, 3:33 pm
Location: Alaska The Great Land

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by AK_Marty »

Just tried the editor with a new char in Book I. Thanks for the great work! What fun waltzing through Thaermoore issuing one hit kills on all in your path :twisted:
Alaska Marty
"It looks a lot more like it does now than it used to!"
User avatar
Evnissyen
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1078
Joined: July 7th, 2008, 11:28 am
Location: Elizabeth Warren Land
Contact:

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Evnissyen »

silverkitty wrote:Anyway, while what you say in principle is true, what we're talking about here is not a whole game, it's specifically xolotl's editor.
I know, I know, I was just feeding the tangent . . . I couldn't help myself. :mrgreen:
AK_Marty wrote:Just tried the editor with a new char in Book I. Thanks for the great work! What fun waltzing through Thaermoore issuing one hit kills on all in your path :twisted:
Did you at least leave me somebody to talk to?
Certainty: a character-driven, literary, turn-based mini-CRPG in which Vasek, legendary "Wandering Philosopher", seeks certainties in a cryptically insular, organic, critically layered city.
User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 777
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by xolotl »

Bah, just found out that picture IDs for items in Book 2 are only unique within their "groups" (so, a group of weapons, group of armor, group of alchemy/magic items, and "other"), thus thwarting my attempts to create myself some "Hellfire Battle Puppy +3" thrown weapons.

Curses!
User avatar
CrazyBernie
Captain Magnate
Captain Magnate
Posts: 1473
Joined: November 29th, 2007, 12:11 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by CrazyBernie »

Ha! I remember playing Doom back in the day and using DehackEd to make the rocket launcher shoot flaming skulls and exploding barrels. *sigh*
Loki
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: June 3rd, 2010, 6:59 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Loki »

To recap: I need to download these items in order to edit my Book I game? I am quoting your page 1 instructions. Will adding these items to my PC cause any problems with other games I have on the hard drive? I'd like to edit my gold and # of torches like we can do in Book II but not if these items (gtk, python and PyGTK) are going to impact other Windows XP applications I am real concerned. I am obviously not real PC literate (though I once hex edited Twilight 2000 so I could edit the Polish language my troops needed to get their reward) but that was years ago. Any help would be appreciated. :mrgreen:

gtk+ Runtime:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=121281
Note that this version, from the gladewin32 Sourceforge project, is the main officially-blessed gtk+ runtime endorsed by PyGTK, so it's the best to use. You can probably get it working with other gtk+ runtime packages, but you may have to do more work. If you DO have other gtk+ runtimes installed, certainly be careful about installing this one side-by-side. You probably only want one installed at any given time.

Python:
http://python.org/download/releases/2.5.2/
Note that as of this writing, PyGTK only ships installation packages which use Python 2.5, not Python 2.6, so you'll have to install a 2.5 release of Python for now.

PyGTK:
http://www.pygtk.org/downloads.html
Be sure to install all three of PyCairo, PyGObject, and PyGTK. You need all three, otherwise it won't work.

At that point, you can just unzip the editor package and double-click on eschalon_b1_char.py, and it'll open up the "Open" dialog. Right now you'll have to browse manually to where the savefiles are. On the next release, I'll hopefully have support for it opening up the Open dialog in a reasonable spot.
User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 777
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by xolotl »

Loki wrote:To recap: I need to download these items in order to edit my Book I game?
Starting with version 0.5.0, all you should have to do on Windows is download the EXE version, double-click to install, and then launch it from the Start menu. Much easier. :) I shoiuld probably go edit the earlier post, since those instructions aren't really needed anymore. Let me know if you see any problems!
Loki
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: June 3rd, 2010, 6:59 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Loki »

So looking at v0.5.0 in the installation instructions I just down load the zip file for v0.5.0 and then the exe file and go from there? Hope I got it right. I'll have to wait for your response and then hit the sack so I can try this tomorrow. Then I can suspend my Book II adventure and go back and tackle the Book I game. Thanks! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

v0.5.0 - tgz/zip (Unix/Mac/Source) - exe (Win) - May 31, 2010
User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 777
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by xolotl »

Loki wrote:So looking at v0.5.0 in the installation instructions I just down load the zip file for v0.5.0 and then the exe file and go from there?
Close; on Windows all you need is the EXE. The zipfile is for UNIX/Linux folks, anyone who wants to try to get it to run on OSX, or people who want to play around with the actual code. You can safely ignore the zipfile. Enjoy!
User avatar
xolotl
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 777
Joined: August 21st, 2008, 1:54 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by xolotl »

Okay, happy Saturday! I just released v0.6.0, which includes support for editing Book 2 savegames. The utility will only load in savegames from the 1.03 release of Book 2, so keep that in mind. The Book 1 functionality is basically unchanged, save for a few minor bugfixes for corner cases (like giving yourself over two billion gold, etc). Note, however, that because a nontrivial amount of stuff changed behind-the-scenes to integrate with Book 2, be extra careful to keep backups before you edit, just in case something blows up. And if it does, let me know about it!

Anyway, it's available at the usual place: http://apocalyptech.com/eschalon/

Enjoy!
Loki
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: June 3rd, 2010, 6:59 pm

Re: Savefile Character / Map Editor

Post by Loki »

Wow! I loaded it up this morning and just couldn't get away to say thank you. Right now I am dealing with a band of thugs and getting my tail waxed! The only strange thing was the disappearance of my saved games. They are there but they are invisible. I have to count down X number of spaces in the SAVED screen to get to the game when saving but it is a mild annoyance.

Great fun so thanks again! :mrgreen:
Post Reply