[spoiler request] list of trainers and books?

[solistus]

I want to try to make a very efficient skill build by using books and trainers to their fullest. I've discovered a lot of each already, but I'm not sure which skills can and cannot be trained / book learned. Does anyone have complete lists?

edit: also, I noticed that you lose the chance to go back and spend extra points if you don't spend them all after you first click the level up button. If you gain multiple levels without clicking, will you lose any skill/attribute points?

[Daemian Lucifer]

I did quite an efficient build using books and trainers.I got these to level 7 without a single spent skillpoint:alchemy(trainer in bordertown),divination,blundgeoning,cleaving and swords(all in blakcwater)and cartography(aridell).I also got hide in shadows,lock picking,skullduggery,mercentile,light and heavy armor from books,as well as 2 points in elemental magic.I didnt find a book for archery and throwing though,so I didnt bother with training it(in bordertown).So that leaves these skills bookless:unarmed,lore,dodge,meditation,shields,move silently and survival.Although I think I found the book for survival in my other game,but Im not sure.And I think there is a book for move silently because there is one for hide in shadows.Same for shields.

[VPeric]

If you gain multiple levels without clicking, will you lose any skill/attribute points?

No, but you'll have to wait for your next level-up to use the points.

[solistus]

If you gain multiple levels without clicking, will you lose any skill/attribute points?

No, but you'll have to wait for your next level-up to use the points.

So unused points (either partial or entire levels) are saved, but the button only lights up on a new level up, right? If I skipped a few levels, would it stay lit?

[VPeric]

I'm not sure I understand your question - the button will "activate" when you levelup, and will stay active until you press it. Levelling-up twice in a row will not let you press the button twice.

[solistus]

No, but let's say I level up, don't press the button, and level up again. The button is still lit and I can click it to spend both levels' points, right?

As I understand it, the system works like this:

-You get your 3 skills and 3 stats per level, each level, and you can spend them however you want - spend them immediately, save some, save all, BUT

-The button lights up whenever you level up, so whenever you decide to spend points, you have to wait till you level up again to spend more.

So, I could save my first few points and early level ups, then spend them all later, but I'd have to do it all in one go or wait to level up between spending points. Right?

[VPeric]

The button is still lit and I can click it to spend both levels' points, right?

So, I could save my first few points and early level ups, then spend them all later, but I'd have to do it all in one go or wait to level up between spending points. Right?

Yes and yes.

[Krafen]

I did quite an efficient build using books and trainers.I got these to level 7 without a single spent skillpoint:alchemy(trainer in bordertown),divination,blundgeoning,cleaving and swords(all in blakcwater)and cartography(aridell).I also got hide in shadows,lock picking,skullduggery,mercentile,light and heavy armor from books,as well as 2 points in elemental magic.I didnt find a book for archery and throwing though,so I didnt bother with training it(in bordertown).So that leaves these skills bookless:unarmed,lore,dodge,meditation,shields,move silently and survival.Although I think I found the book for survival in my other game,but Im not sure.And I think there is a book for move silently because there is one for hide in shadows.Same for shields.

I can confirm a book for Bow Weapons exists. Other than that, I have the same bookless list you do.

[Odium]

List Confirmed ... found no other books yet. And I tried really hard Passing all those chest by ... and return later in high level ... it's been hard ...

[solistus]

So the lists are:

Trainer AND Book (train to 5, then read book for max efficiency): Alchemy, Divination, Elemental, Bludgeoning, Cleaving, Swords, Cartography

Just Book (Learn from book first for max efficiency): Hide in Shadows, Lock Picking, Skullduggery, Mercantile, Light Armor, Heavy Armor, Archery

Just Trainer (train to 5 first for max efficiency): Throwing

No Book OR Trainer (learn whenever): Unarmed, Lore, Dodge, Meditation, Shields, Move Silently, Survival

Two more questions:

1. I hear it's better to raise endurance and perception early for hp/mana per level bonuses. Is this correct?

2. What skills of the no book or trainer category are worthwhile to invest some points into? Dodge? Move Silently? Survival? Are the others useless (assuming I want to use a weapon instead of unarmed)?

[Daemian Lucifer]

Archery has a trainer as well.

2. What skills of the no book or trainer category are worthwhile to invest some points into? Dodge? Move Silently? Survival? Are the others useless (assuming I want to use a weapon instead of unarmed)?

I didnt use any of those.Dodge seems nice,but buffing yourself is much nicer.Hide in shadows beats move silently because it works even if you are surounded by enemies that already saw you.Meditation is useless since perception replaces it better.Survival probably falls in the same category.

[Krafen]

There is a trainer for Archery.

Your lists are missing Spot Hidden. There is a book, but no trainer.


Of the skills available through skill points only:

Shields: 1 point is worthwhile. An enchanted shield gives a nice boost to armor. You can't use torches with a shield, but there are several other options for seeing in the dark.

Dodge: Not a bad use for extra points, if you have them, but since you can pretty much max your defense with spells, it is not really necessary.

Unarmed: Sorta handy for the ability to break things open without expending magic or risking a weapon. I generally just use magic, though.

Move Silently: I haven't experimented with this. Maybe worthwhile if you want to emphasize stealth?

Survival: There is a cloak that gives +5, just stick with that.

Lore: Use the spell instead.

Meditation: Raising Perception is a much better solution.

This advice is based on effectiveness. If you are going for a particular theme or challenge, you may well want to choose a different approach.


A few additional skill notes:

I have never seen Lv6 Melt Lock fail, so I wouldn't even bother learning the skill Lock Picking. It just clutters up your skill list.

The spell that disarms traps, however, often fails at level 6, so Skullduggery is probably worth raising.

Alchemy reaches its maximum potential at level 15. You can wear two rings for a total bonus of +4.

At level 17, Cartography shows nearby mobs on your minimap. The range is a bit larger than the game window.

[solistus]

So far, my min-maxer character is level 3, focusing on perception and endurance (at 28 and 20, respectively). My only skill so far is my free class point in divination. Flesh Boil, Bless and Divine Heal are great help so far, and I look forward to Leatherskin. At level 3, grinding random mobs is tough, as the poison salamanders hit pretty hard and take a while to flesh boil away. I did the salamander quest for the crypt keeper, then killed him. I also talked to the old man in Aridell, got my stuff and killed him. Other than that, I haven't done anything storyline-related. I found my first book (Alchemy), but I'm miles away from the trainer so it won't be getting any use for a while. BTW, isn't the ring bonus +6 total? Trainer + book + rings + 2 points maxes Alchemy, right? 2 points for the best healing pots and imbues sounds good

Where should I be investing my points? I plan to put a few in Hide in Shadows after I find the book, although I'm not sure how it scales so I don't know how many points I want. I'm not sure which weapon skill to focus on or how much to invest there, either. How many points do you need for rank 6 of all spells? As for stats, I plan to get 40 pec, 25 endurance, eventually 20 int+wis, then get mostly str and dex. What does concentration actually _do_? And is speed worth getting?

[Odium]

Concentration lowers your opponents chance to interrupt your casting. Needed only when you try casting while enganged in melee "combat" ... " " cuz friendly npc count too ... whyever oO

[Daemian Lucifer]

@solistus

Stoneskin is better than leatherskin.

And you wont need more than one point in hide in shadows,since even with that one single point I was able to disappear from sight of enemies engaging me by simply moving a single square.