The Drunken Lizard Pub

Anyone give this game a try? I downloaded the demo and played for about 45 minutes. I read somewhere that the devs tried to capture the old-skool vibe, and I can "kind of" see it. It has a very high fantasy feel to it, with extremely bright-n-shiny graphics that are obvious they were going for the "anti-reality" look.

All in all, I am slightly intrigued with the game play. I haven't done any kind of interaction with NPCs yet; I've just roamed the countryside and explored, playing with the combat engine a bit. It feels to me like this could be an enjoyable little romp, although I doubt it could be anything beyond merely enjoyable. Can anyone recommend it or warn against it?

I'm probably leaning towards getting this at some point, though physically or DD remains to be seen as my current PC can't hope to run it anyways.

For one thing, it is nifty coming from a system other than D&D. They also seem to be serious about it in part at least since it was recently confimed that, due to the volume of sales in Germany at the very least, they've began work on a prequel. The game is supposed to be pretty linear, lots of combat, no spanning dialog trees into infinity, yet rewards decently for non-combat solutions to fights and such where applicable.

Considering it is budget priced to boot, I'd definitely consider it...or at least...if say another patch or 2 manifests as a sign that they are paying continued attention to it, might as well support a small company if the fancy strikes.

It's very MMO'ish... for a minute I thought I was playing the Lord of the Rings Online beta again. A quick and dirty review based on an hour of play:

Pros:

Medium Detail Level runs smooth @ 1680 x 1050 on my machine.
Overall the graphics look nice.
MMO Style Gameplay
- Combat System is Likeable. (The Insta-Pause is very appreciated)
- Character Advancement is Robust.
- Quest tracker is nice.

Cons:

I would need to upgrade my system to enjoy High Detail.
Not liking the run speed.
Can't traverse water.
MMO Style Gameplay
- Something about the dialogue kind of turns me off. This is likely due to translation.
- The whole presentation is too MMOish... which is ok if you're playing an MMO, but this is a SP RPG.

Overall:

70 out of 100.... or "Meh, it's all right."

I probably wouldn't mind playing through the whole game, but I think it would take some effort to "get into." I think this game is going to suffer from the localization factor. German Author's of German table-top RPGs who wrote a 1000 pages of script for a German RPG? That's likely 1000 pages of dialogue that aren't going to be translated very well. It's very well possible that I'm being overly critical (it is well past my bedtime, and I have this annoying cold that's kicking my ass), and I haven't seen the party system in action, so that could be a big plus in the game's favor. That being said, I'm gonna go catchup on bedrest.

having to some extend played the pen-and-paper this game is based on it has a huge downside. the combat is just ridiculous. this game is all about combat where the pen-and-paper is all about avoiding it. you can recover in good conditions a D6+some small bonus HP a _day_ and you just recover the same amount in the game while fighting. they kept the flair really tight to the pnp, put on some nice graphics and lots of nice story. but i guess to appeal to the masses they had to do something to the fighting system. as i had also played its "predecessors" - at least part 3 for some longer time i really miss the turnbased combat on the grid alot too.

dont get me wrong - the game is for sure some fun and getting the demo and find out yourself is for sure the save bet. i also can not comment on the english translation of the game as this game was released some time here ago in germany. i for now stick with king's bounty for old school and wait for eschalon 2

I'm really liking it so far. I would not say it is very MMOish more NWNish - D&D...

ITs fun and well put together.

I tried quickly the demo and agree it seems quite interesting. I also agree that it has links with NWN2 but don't see links with MMO. Even the pause system is what you find in NWN2.

Plus are:

• A sheer number of small quests.
• Plenty NPC and little dialogs.
• Many little touch of humor well done.
• Solid writing quality even if not at top like few CRPG as The Witcher, Fallout 1 or MoTB.
• Nice graphics and good framerate.
• Very complex class system but quite intriguing.
• Ton of women big breast!
• If like in The Witcher, NWN2 or MoTB the area are limited it's quite better managed in Drakensang and in general you feel you have more freedom.

Cons are:

• The camera control which is quite weird and complicate, you need use movement keys plus look keys and even the mouse combined with a key... when in NWN2 you just need use a mouse!!! Designers should have played a little NWN2 before to throw this design.
• The fights seems to have many glitch, you cannot stack commands like in NWN2, NPC in your party seems often a little dumb, the fights are a little confuse.
• A lack of quickslots.
• Humans graphics aren't bad but sometimes look a bit more cartoon like than other graphics and the little contrast is a little strange.
• Very bad managements of terrain obstacles, it's hard to guess what will block your movements or not and there's plenty weird invisible obstacles. They should learn some lessons by playing a bit the Gothic series.
• Voices are used for most NPC with dialogs but only their first talk in the dialog is with voice. I can understand the economical purpose but the choice is strange and the result a little weird.
• A lack of polishing in interface design. For example the option panel that allows change keys commands is quite weird just because when you set a key the game let you no choice and refuse the change, and you cannot just remove a key of a command, that result in a boring little management.

All in all, the feeling I get from the demo is very positive, despite a general lack of polishing. The fight quality will probably be the core point that will make me like or not the game, even if that's just a part of the game it's an important part.

Well, NWN + a Crafting System pretty much = SP MMORPG. Technically NWN is an MORPG anyway... so it's already halfway there...

Although I was pretty harsh on the game in my Tired, sick delirium, I stand by my initial assessment, especially after rolling a dwarf. Felt like I was playing LotR:Online all over again. I dunno, it's hard to describe the feeling... I guess I've just played too many MMO's... but the graphics feel very similar to LotR. That combined with the dialogue, crafting, quest tracker, etc., gives me that impression.

However, I am liking the game a bit better with a fighter-type character so far. I rolled an elf the first time and wasn't liking the ranged combat as much as I do the close quarters fighting. I think I'm going to have to upgrade my initial score to 75ish

Also, if they didn't have so much of the game locked out for the demo... that was my problem with the elf... couldn't make my own arrows even though I could harvest all of the supplies to do so. If the demo showcased more of the robustness of the game, I think it would increase the appeal.

Palog wrote:The camera control which is quite weird and complicate, you need use movement keys plus look keys and even the mouse combined with a key... when in NWN2 you just need use a mouse!!!

Not seeing the problem here... I have no problems controlling the camera with just a mouse. Hold RMB down to move the camera, and scroll to zoom in/out.

Some additional observations:

The weight of the equipment you're wearing doesn't affect your overall carried weight. So no matter how heavy your armor is, as long as you're wearing it, it's weightless!

You can't pick a lock with a hairpin unless you assign it to a quickslot and use it from there.

The stamina bar for weapon based combat adds to the MMO feel I was talking about.

Having to click on a special ability and then click on the enemey is a bit annoying... it'd be nice if there was some sort of toggle to make it automatic.

Having a party greatly increases my enjoyment of the game... picked up the Amazon by the inn and some roguish fellow from a quest. The party controls could use some tweaking though.

Obligatory screenshots:

CrazyBernie wrote: Although I was pretty harsh on the game in my Tired, sick delirium, I stand by my initial assessment, especially after rolling a dwarf.

My first feeling wasn't that bad but after to have fully played the demo (with the ranger), my feeling changed a lot and that's a great demo.

My first feeling wasn't so good perhaps because of controls, fights a bit confuse, many movements obstacles totally non natural, partial voices and dialog anime with no voices looking weird.

Now my feeling is very very good, I'm not sure why. My guess is that it comes mainly from:

• The general system party based and somehow close to NWN2 system is closer to what I prefer and rare in modern CRPG. The writing is solid and there's many little touch of humor that makes the whole much more pleasant.
• The demo area succeed the quadrature of the circle by mixing a feeling a freedom (more than NWN2 and MoTB but even more than the Witcher) without to fall into empty area feeling (Oblivion) or lack of content density (Gothic 3).
• The area design is more 3D than most modern CRPG in fact not that far from Gothic 2/3 quality on this point, so much better on this point than NWN2/MoTB/The Witcher.
• My feeling about the fight system is still a bit mixed, but it changes a lot when I started to enable pause at each round. I feel that it should have been really turned based with less fights too much similar (like the wolves in the forest).
• The numerous quests with some that require a bit of digging even if objectively most quests are too much straight forward.
• The whole class/skill system is very complicate but quite intriguing.

Overall I felt its general system like a mix of Gothic 2/3 with NWN2/MoTB and a bit of The Witcher. Not that it merge the best from all but it's a general feeling. The bonus isn't only this interesting mix but also the different class system.

That said I also note many little lack of polishing (among other points very polished) plus some design choice I usually don't enjoy that much:

• I haven't seen a single real decision point.
• The target of most quests just shown on the map like Oblivion is a kiddish approach, thanks not all stuff is like that but most.
• Some area get a high respawn that could involve many repetitive and not very interesting fights in case you search something you can't find.
• I notice some area where there's just not enough place and with a fight there the cam is a little nightmare to manage during the fight.
• Many obstacles to movements are totally non natural that's even worse than the Witcher but I have to admit that after some time you get used to this... almost.
• When PC/NPC held a weapon they always have a fight attitude, it looks weird when you just stand somewhere.
• Time to pick components (herb/animal) is very long.
• Run mode is very slow but on that point I'm not sure if this is a wise decision or not. It could contribute to a slow pace that match well a real CRPG. Also those slow movements could contribute to the excellent framerate and to not make weird many place where you struggle a little with the camera.
• No custom setup for the mouse, so no custom setup for commands linked to mouse elements.
• Lack of tutorial/hints/help reset and some important information found in tutorial help just once and not anymore in in-game help. Important for such a complex system at its start (ie it's not the third in the series).
• Lack of alternate options like a toggle walk, a default to mouse lock instead of requiring RMB for mouse lock, a real strategic mode as an alternate to the current shooter based system, more setup for each NPC (people whine about NWN2 but this game is very far from it on this point), keys for looking up/down as there are keys for look right/left (not that I would use up/down but I bet some people would prefer have this), options for the cam like force the reset to the last position used by the user after it's been change by some constraints, and so on.
• The four quickslot bars are really missing, it's a bit boring to scroll between bars and as game progress it will become more a problem.

CrazyBernie wrote: Felt like I was playing LotR:Online all over again...

Well if that's true then LotR would be the first MMORPG I would enjoy play (I played 6 some years ago). I should try LotR even if now only the tag of MMORPG
makes me vomit.

CrazyBernie wrote: However, I am liking the game a bit better with a fighter-type character so far. I rolled an elf the first time and wasn't liking the ranged combat as much as I do the close quarters fighting.

I played the elf ranger and enjoyed. Anyway you meet 2 NPC to join your team that are both close fight based (but with different skills). I felt good the ranger, she has spells and long range and one special attack not to mention that she could do a nice job for extracting herbs or animal parts, plus that you could use her for disarm to allow the rogue focus more on pick lock and fights. The bad point in the demo is that you can't build your arrows.

CrazyBernie wrote: I think I'm going to have to upgrade my initial score to 75ish

If I had to give a score on the base of the demo only it would be 90% and in my all time top 5... BUT for the full game that could be quite different.

CrazyBernie wrote: If the demo showcased more of the robustness of the game, I think it would increase the appeal.

The lock of some features is a little suspect, did they had too many bugs? Myself I quote few bugs I don't care like animal corpse almost fully burind in the ground of a slope or a transparency mode that isn't reflected for a movement with a click of the mouse (I don't see a tree part because it is transparent so I click further to move and then nothing happen because the game consider that I click on the tree I don't see.

CrazyBernie wrote: Not seeing the problem here... I have no problems controlling the camera with just a mouse. Hold RMB down to move the camera, and scroll to zoom in/out.

Well in general I hate keeping pressed a key or a mouse button and in fact I'm using a trackball that makes it worse for most mouse buttons. I used this setup:

• I give up trying using a camera strategic mode like in NWN2, for me with camera centered, click on ground to move and mouse on screen borders to change the camera plus a key to force max zoom out, I have the more comfortable and efficient mode, particularly with the trackball I'm using. That said the 3D terrain design is quite different in Drakensang and I'm not sure that such mode would work as well it works in NWN2.
• I also gave up using strafe keys, well it's not a shooter anyway.
• I use keys for move forward, look left/right.
• I use the key to max zoom out as soon as I can.
• I program the RMB of my trackball to toggle drag so I don't need keep the button pressed when I want mouse lock.
• When I have to make long walk in a terrain already explored I use the click on ground (very far) and temper adjustments of camera to a minimum.

That setup is far to be as comfortable than the NWN2 setup I described above but it brings plus I don't have with this NWN2 setup, like for long walk, or to allow more adjustments of cam than I usually do in NWN2. There's still area where there's very few space for which my current Drakensang setup doesn't work very well but enough to be playable.

CrazyBernie wrote:Some additional observations:
You can't pick a lock with a hairpin unless you assign it to a quickslot and use it from there.

I never used this trick and opened all chests of the demo, well for some I had to try multiple time and I put few point in pick lock for the rogue.

CrazyBernie wrote: The stamina bar for weapon based combat adds to the MMO feel I was talking about.

Well I don't think stamina has been invented by MMO.

CrazyBernie wrote: Having to click on a special ability and then click on the enemey is a bit annoying... it'd be nice if there was some sort of toggle to make it automatic.

Are you sure of this? I'm almost sure that at least some skills don't require more than click on it and then switch to another charater and stop the pause. That said the system isn't very clear but with practice it could be ok.

CrazyBernie wrote: The party controls could use some tweaking though.

For fights I feel the system should have been really fully Turn based. I end in using pause at each round but it's not fully the same.

For exploring I'd like have a setup for using a key for select all party, or that party splitting would not be the default but only triggered when you use a special command.

Picked this game up last night and played for a couple of hours.

Im not sure Im seeing much old school here, i guess the closest thing to that would be the amount of skills that you can develop, there are quite a few of those. It remains to be seen how usefull they are in the game.

I did see one skill check used in dialog near the beginning of the game.

So I do like the sheer amount of options of character customization.

The game sure is pretty. I have a feeling this is going to be like most modern games, impressive and great looking for the first few hours then gets boring and shallow after more hours of play.

So far the dialog is very average and I turned the voice overs off cuz I never seem to like them.

Two big negatives so far......There are buildings in the first village, but you cant enter a single one of them. I hate that! Is it like this in the whole game?

The other is quest arrows, what happened to the challenge in games? I hate being lead around on a leash.

Seems very linear too.

Hopefully it will at least be worth the 30$ I spent on the game.

I gotta say some of you are very very tough on new games, and very forgiving of games you remember playing.

Rune_74 wrote:I gotta say some of you are very very tough on new games, and very forgiving of games you remember playing.

Well usually what's new is beautiful and quite over rated so fall a bit in the reverse tendency is a sort of balance.

Saxon1974 wrote: Im not sure Im seeing much old school here, i guess the closest thing to that would be the amount of skills that you can develop, there are quite a few of those.

I agree it's not obvious why so many review quoted it old school, perhaps because it comes from the old continent? I don't think the number of skills is lower in modern CRPG than in older one. In fact its number of skills isn't that high if you just stick to real skills. The original point is that spells are considered like skills and that there are plenty special attack also considered as skills. From this point of view the number of skills is large.

Saxon1974 wrote: It remains to be seen how usefull they are in the game. I did see one skill check used in dialog near the beginning of the game.

Always the problem of non mechanical skills like related to the fights or shops or some general game mechanism, it's dependent of the scenario itself.

Saxon1974 wrote: So I do like the sheer amount of options of character customization.

I don't see what you mean.

Saxon1974 wrote: The game sure is pretty. I have a feeling this is going to be like most modern games, impressive and great looking for the first few hours then gets boring and shallow after more hours of play.

So far, so not so far but more than the demo, my feeling was quite good at the end of the demo and after to have play more it is even better or at least it's quite a pleasure to play it.

Saxon1974 wrote: So far the dialog is very average and I turned the voice overs off cuz I never seem to like them.

The writing quality and dialogs in the demo are for me between good and better than average. But as the game progress I felt it better, the parts after the demo seems improving the quality. One thing I enjoyed in the writing was the multiple light touch of humor, it's not too heavy to avoid break the immersion and it's just smiles but quite pleasant. There's more than that as the game progress.

Saxon1974 wrote: Two big negatives so far......There are buildings in the first village, but you cant enter a single one of them. I hate that! Is it like this in the whole game?

You can enter in a building in first village??? I haven't play the full game but the area after the demo is mainly a large town. You can enter only in the main important buildings but other than that this town is impressive anyway and more fun to explore and investigate than most towns of modern CRPG.

Not many full 3D CRPG allows enter in most buildings, I prefer this than The Witcher choice. There's a rude problem to manage the scale of houses and scale of the town. Those sort of game requires more space and it's even worse here because you have a party and the camera management request more space. I won't enter in a detailed debate but I wonder what full 3D CRPG offer both a real good town implementation and allowing enter in most buildings. And even if you get some example the point is that it's not party based full 3D CRPG. Well a complicate debate.

Saxon1974 wrote: The other is quest arrows, what happened to the challenge in games? I hate being lead around on a leash.

I agree on this comment, but that requires some deeper analysis because I felt it working anyway and far to be the total disaster of oblivion because of a similar problem.

Saxon1974 wrote: Seems very linear too.

I wonder why people consider linear ACDB/DBCA/BCDA.... For me linear is ABCD and for example NW2 (I enjoyed a lot) suffer of this problem, not this game. It's is more a succession of medium webs but I have yet to quote any decision point involving some branch even a branch only for a part of the adventure.

I also read in few reviews that the game implement multiple solutions to a same problem, but that I don't see that point at all for now.

Saxon1974 wrote: Hopefully it will at least be worth the 30$ I spent on the game.

I'm just playing a copy and not in my native language because release has been pushed back for my country. Usually I don't rush on a game, for example still have to start play fallout 3 I already bought at its release, and prefer wait the localized version if I must. But the "call of the demo" has been too strong and I didn't succeed to resist play it more. At this point I haven't play enough of this game and for sure it has flaws but it could ends in my all time favorite top ten or even top five.

CrazyBernie wrote: You can't pick a lock with a hairpin unless you assign it to a quickslot and use it from there.

As I already quoted in fact you can but it's quite tougher and it never break the hairpin.

When I played the demo I hadn't much problems but when replaying the area with the full game it's been quite different, I think the rogue companion starts less skilled or I spend less point in lock pick, anyway with the full game I opened some chests without this trick but more than once have been quite happy to apply this quickslot trick.

About quickslot, I discovered another not so obvious but important use, some items allow healing or cure poison. But if you activate them in the inventory you can only apply on the character. you need put the item in a quicklot to apply it on another character, handy for healing or cure some NPC that hasn't the right skill to do it himself.