The Drunken Lizard Pub

Hmm, im kinda stuck on this one in taurax fortress. Is it possible to prevent lil guy dying by script and breaking challenge?

Ha...you know what? The answer would be no. He should be exempt from the rule, but I just discovered he isn't.

I'll patch this for 1.02 (on Monday). If you keep a saved game there, you can continue with the game now and then go back there if you want to finish the game as a True Healer.

Another question about true healer. The phrase "you must never kill a friendly aligned NPC, even if being attacked" is meaningless. If i am being attacked - then by definition its not a friendly aligned NPC anymore.

For instance, the guy in the church well - can i kill him when he attacks ? Or is he "friendly aligned" ? How is one to know ?

karry wrote:Another question about true healer. The phrase "you must never kill a friendly aligned NPC, even if being attacked" is meaningless. If i am being attacked - then by definition its not a friendly aligned NPC anymore.

For instance, the guy in the church well - can i kill him when he attacks ? Or is he "friendly aligned" ? How is one to know ?

Any NPC who does not attack you unless you commit a crime or attack them first would be "friendly aligned." The solution to what to do if you happen to piss off friendly NPCs is to use your Charm.

Any NPC who does not attack you unless you commit a crime or attack them first

Again, meaningless. You just gave the definition of "NPC" as it is understood in RPGs. Entity that attacks you on sight is not usually called NPC. Sure, you might try and say "creatures and enemies are NPC too", but thats stretching it.

I initiated an attack on the werewolf NPC and it did NOT break true healer.

I suffered an attack from sparrow and it DID break true healer.

It seems kinda contradictory.

Perhaps it's because the werewolf is voluntarily evil, where Sparrow isn't...

Sparrow is done deliberately that way to make a major game challenge. You get the same thing with Wendy.

The werewolf was changed during beta testing to define him as evil.

Randomizer wrote:Sparrow is done deliberately that way to make a major game challenge.

I searched the forums before posting this as a bug and I have to say I disagree with the implementation. Rather than "a major game challenge", it feels merely counter-intuitive and illogical.

A better way, I think, to keep the intended challenge would be to have Sparrow deliver her speech, refuse to hand over the key, but never turn hostile. The dilemma would be clear -- kill a non-aggressive character and complete the quest (but fail the true healer challenge) or look for an alternative solution (which the game should recognize as continuation of the quest line)? Punishing the player for killing an NPC that did turn hostile (in an almost identical way like Julian before her, no less) is basically cheating, as it directly contradicts the challenge description.

CrazyBernie wrote:Perhaps it's because the werewolf is voluntarily evil, where Sparrow isn't...

Quite right. Sparrow and Wendy are "sick". As a TRUE HEALER you should never kill the sick.

The real "contradictory kill" is Julian. He is sick as well, but you are allowed to kill him and remain a True Healer. Why? Well, the Priest gives you permission to put him out of his misery, so to speak, if he is found to be of an ill state of mind. Whereas Wendy and Sparrow are only partially gone, Julian has already fully turned to the "dark side".

And besides- it is a Challenge. You can do anything you want to Sparrow during the course of a normal game. But, if you want to complete the challenge, you have to do this quest in another way.

Thanks for the reply, BW. Now it indeed makes sense, although I still think it would bear an extra line in the true healer challenge description to make it more clear to the uninitiated (or maybe I just wasn't far enough in the game to understand that Sparrow's crossing over to the dark side was a "sickness" and not really voluntary).

And until now I have refrained from killing Julian and the werewolf! It's impossible to know the consequences for the true healer's challenge unless one has read Basilisk Wrangler's above post.
I hope something can be done that makes this less confusing.

BasiliskWrangler wrote:The real "contradictory kill" is Julian. He is sick as well, but you are allowed to kill him and remain a True Healer.

This didn't work for me (version 1.03):



I had received the quest from the priest. I like this True Healer challenge, but the way it's working still needs some attention.
EDIT: Did another test, the challenge doesn't fail if I attempt to speak to Julian first, although I had already found his message that suggests he's pretty mad.

micks wrote:I searched the forums before posting this as a bug and I have to say I disagree with the implementation. Rather than "a major game challenge", it feels merely counter-intuitive and illogical.

I think so, too. I actually like your suggestion more than the current implementation bec. it would add a more conscious moral element to the particular encounter apart from the challenge. it would also make it clearer that there is/are another/other way/s to get in the mine without breaking the challenge. (at least before finding out that defending yourself does & reloading) i think she still should be able to turn hostile, but it should be clear through dialogue that you also have to do what you have to do, instead of her just attacking you when trying to persuade her. i also failed the challenge, having no earlier save and the option to display a message when a challenge is failed being off. however even if i had the chance id still probably kill her, it's not like you're given clear choice as to what else to do. i'm blaming it on the game lol

There's some subtle and not so subtle clues throughout the game as to the condition of those who follow 'the One.'

Just as in real life, you can sometimes misinterpret a person's actions... like a cop who shoots someone reaching for his/her ID.